Transcript

00:00:01.44
Neely Quinn
All right. Welcome to the show, Nathaniel. Thank you very much for talking with me today.

00:00:06.28
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, thanks for inviting me on the show, Nealey. I appreciate it.

00:00:09.25
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. I’m excited about this. So for anybody who doesn’t know who you are, can you just tell me a little bit about yourself, where you live, how long you’ve been climbing, stuff like that, anything you want to share?

00:00:21.22
Nathaniel Lamont
Uh, yeah, so I live in, uh, near Sherbrooke, Quebec, which is about two hours east of Montreal.

00:00:29.72
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:00:29.89
Nathaniel Lamont
And, uh, yeah, I’ve been climbing for about since I was, yeah, six years. I’ve been climbing for six years now and mostly I started off bouldering. And, uh, in the last three years I’ve been, I’ve been focusing more on sport climbing.

00:00:47.11
Neely Quinn
All right.

00:00:48.00
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:00:48.49
Neely Quinn
Great. And i that’s what we’re going to be talking about today, right? Is your sport climbing?

00:00:52.38
Nathaniel Lamont
Yep. Yeah.

00:00:53.20
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:00:53.96
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:00:54.35
Neely Quinn
Okay. Cool. ah So you have been very gracious and brave here, in my opinion, to come on here and basically do, not basically, to do a full mindset coaching session as I would with my clients, but usually in private.

00:01:13.09
Nathaniel Lamont
right

00:01:13.23
Neely Quinn
So we’re going to be talking about, and actually I’m just going to let you say what we’re going to be talking about, but what’s going to happen is we’ll figure out the topic that you want to discuss.

00:01:24.74
Neely Quinn
We’ll figure out some goals that you want to reach within this session. And then we’ll go through and talk about the situation, your thoughts, your feelings, your struggles that you’re going through and try to um find some solutions for you.

00:01:40.13
Neely Quinn
Does that sound okay?

00:01:41.36
Nathaniel Lamont
Sounds great.

00:01:42.42
Neely Quinn
Cool. All right. So what is our topic? What are we talking about today?

00:01:46.43
Nathaniel Lamont
So the main thing that I would like to talk about is fear of… I suppose it’s fear of falling. Fear of falling specifically above the bolt.

00:01:59.25
Nathaniel Lamont
Um, yeah, I, I think I tend to not push myself in sport climbing because I guess a lot of people have this, but because of fear of taking a bad fall or injuring myself or yeah, I’m over analyzing a lot of the time I’m.

00:02:18.66
Nathaniel Lamont
climbing, thinking about like overthinking about everything, which takes away from my ability to focus on how to actually execute each section correctly.

00:02:29.63
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:02:29.83
Nathaniel Lamont
when i’m When I’m on the wall outside, inside, it doesn’t seem to make a big difference for me. Actually, outdoors is sometimes easier for me, strangely.

00:02:39.51
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:02:43.14
Nathaniel Lamont
I don’t know why, but it’s a problem in both indoors and outdoors for me.

00:02:49.14
Neely Quinn
um Okay.

00:02:49.16
Nathaniel Lamont
i

00:02:50.65
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So you have a fear of falling when you’re above your bolt inside or outside, and it’s taking away from your ability to what I’m assuming is enjoy the sport and to be able to focus on the movement.

00:03:04.32
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, for sure. um I often think what I like most about the sport is solving problems, figuring out an elegant or way to get through a section. It’s what I fell in love with about bouldering, which is like being able to being able to really hone in on using technique to get through ah difficult sections. And I find that I can’t actually push myself in sport climbing because as soon as I get to a difficult part where I think I might fall uncontrolled without just like you know yelling take and jumping down.

00:03:39.23
Nathaniel Lamont
I start shaking or I get like, like physically shaking, not just shaking out.

00:03:45.55
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:03:45.56
Nathaniel Lamont
a I get like, yeah, my mind goes, goes wild. I get into kind of fight or flight fear mode and I don’t feel like I have control of my body really.

00:03:58.53
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that must be really frustrating.

00:04:01.40
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, picked up.

00:04:03.20
Neely Quinn
And scary. Yeah.

00:04:05.07
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah Yeah, it’s scary. Yeah, as ah as a consequence, also, I’m not really I think I’m not getting better at sport climbing because I’m not. I mean, what’s allowed me to get better at bouldering, for example, is just pushing, being able to push harder grades and like, and project harder grades.

00:04:23.03
Nathaniel Lamont
And in sport climbing, I find, I think I’m climbing way more below my level because I’m scared to get into to anything that’s going to cause me to, you know, regularly fall, which of course you need to to get better.

00:04:36.24
Neely Quinn
Yeah, right. Yeah, so it sounds like it’s really important for you to be able to progress in the sport, to see improvement, to push grades, like you said. And I’m assuming, yes, you want to do that with sport climbing as well.

00:04:46.52
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:04:51.05
Neely Quinn
And so it seems like talking through this, that’s one of the reasons that it’s important for you to like talk through it, try to find some way through this.

00:04:51.06
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:05:00.24
Neely Quinn
But why else is this important to you to talk this through and to, you know,

00:05:00.44
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:05:05.06
Neely Quinn
fix it as much as possible.

00:05:07.40
Nathaniel Lamont
um I think it’s important also because i I want to be able to, within my climbing community, are the people that I climb with, my climbing partners, I want to be able to feel like we’re kind of equally contributing to, you know, leading something that none of us has tried yet first and uh, feeling confident in that, not always being the one to be like, uh, maybe you could lead it first and I’ll try it on top rope first.

00:05:35.54
Nathaniel Lamont
And, you know, it’s, it’s nice to feel like you can be, I would like to feel a little bit more like I can be a leader in that.

00:05:36.60
Neely Quinn
Mm-hm.

00:05:43.15
Nathaniel Lamont
Cause sometimes I climb with people that I know in the gym, I climb. I’m fully capable of climbing at the same level as, or, or a harder level then.

00:05:54.16
Nathaniel Lamont
And so it’s kind of. Funny, there they’ll often be like, well, why don’t you go? I’m a little scared of that. I’m like, no way. I might go. I might try to lead of 512 or whatever.

00:06:07.03
Neely Quinn
Okay. Yeah. So you want to be an equal member of your community and be providing what they’re providing for you and feel comfortable.

00:06:12.28
Nathaniel Lamont
Yes. Yeah, exactly.

00:06:18.56
Neely Quinn
Okay. And what do you imagine it would be like for you to get on a route first time, never seeing anybody else on it and having less fear?

00:06:32.55
Nathaniel Lamont
um Yeah, being able to just focus on the movement, I think is the main thing. Being able to focus on correct rest positions, what I need to be doing with my feet at all times.

00:06:46.98
Nathaniel Lamont
being able to do what I do for bouldering, I guess, which is be able to take a second to look up, see the holds, check out the sequence, be more analytical ah about it if necessary, or be more flowing if necessary. But yeah, being able to access what I feel like I’m able to access better in bouldering.

00:07:13.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like what you’re describing is sort of like flow or the zone, which is, I think, a lot of the reason that a lot of us climb is we have this pure focus.

00:07:19.77
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:07:25.16
Neely Quinn
Nothing else matters in the world at the moment. it’s But what else does that provide to you? Like, what kinds of emotions do you feel when you’re bouldering and you’re in that zone?

00:07:38.23
Nathaniel Lamont
I don’t feel a lot when I’m actually on the wall when I’m in that zone.

00:07:42.75
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:07:43.49
Nathaniel Lamont
It feels…

00:07:46.89
Nathaniel Lamont
just like a state of of focus and exertion and I can feel my body. I can feel it’s like a ah moment of perfect presence, I would say. And that is fine with fear. I think you can I think that you can kind of oscillate between the two. ah in And i’ve I’ve had good experiences with having fear and flow and flow on routes before and in bouldering before, especially bouldering outside.

00:08:18.89
Nathaniel Lamont
But I don’t want to be in a position where I feel over like one aspect is overtaking the total the like my mental my mental state, I suppose.

00:08:31.36
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:08:31.37
Nathaniel Lamont
So having so much fear that I can’t ah appreciate my movement and be present, and I’m thinking about instead the future or the past, thinking about previous injuries or falling or hurting myself.

00:08:44.54
Nathaniel Lamont
or

00:08:45.46
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:08:45.79
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:08:47.08
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that’s a really good ah discernment there. is So you’re not trying to get rid of the fear. You’re totally fine with having some amount of fear. And you just want it to not be overtaking the other good things that you experience with climbing.

00:09:03.51
Nathaniel Lamont
Exactly.

00:09:04.41
Neely Quinn
no So in this session today, what would you want to accomplish? What would you want to get out of this?

00:09:14.30
Nathaniel Lamont
maybe some more clarity on some of the tools that I could use to slowly improve this. I mean, I have some experience with structured strength training and structured endurance training and getting ah improvement with that, but not so much with the psychological side of things.

00:09:38.54
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:09:40.12
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, I’ve tried reading a couple books about it, but I don’t find it and didn’t find them all super helpful.

00:09:46.24
Neely Quinn
OK, so you want clarity and tools to use to start working on this and improve it.

00:09:55.20
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, for sure. not like I’ve heard podcasts about it, I’ve heard about you know taking structured falls and working up to it. But I’m not really sure. I don’t think I have a lot of clarity about how you would go about doing that. And there’s some I think there’s also some difficulty with you know, personally with wanting to, like how much of my time I can use to do structured following.

00:10:26.75
Neely Quinn
you see and Okay.

00:10:27.35
Nathaniel Lamont
You know, I work full time and I have, you know, I have a a partner of a house. We have a baby on the way. I know I’m going to, I know i’m I’m pretty busy.

00:10:37.77
Nathaniel Lamont
So I have like three days a week to climb and train and that’s it. Ways to be efficient about it as well.

00:10:46.75
Neely Quinn
Yes, that makes sense. Right. And you can see protocols online, but they’re not necessarily going to work for your specific situation. So yeah, tailoring it to you is something that we can definitely do. And we will talk about fall practice and strategies to use and how to incorporate it into your sessions.

00:11:04.57
Neely Quinn
um The other thing we’re definitely going to talk about, which I’m going to start asking you about now, is the experience that you actually have out there, what kinds of things are actually occurring, what’s triggering the fear, um so that we can really hone the strategies that you use with the fall practice.

00:11:24.45
Neely Quinn
So um the first question I’ll ask you about the emotional state is um what experiences in your past have contributed to this pretty intense fear that you experienced with sport climbing, if any.

00:11:43.76
Nathaniel Lamont
So I think it starts with, i’ve I entered the sport with a pretty serious fear of heights, I suppose.

00:11:51.75
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:11:52.52
Nathaniel Lamont
I bowledered for… two years before I ever tried sport climbing and I could boulder within the first two years like V5 outside and like V6 inside and I couldn’t get to the top of a wall of like a five whatever.

00:12:10.39
Nathaniel Lamont
Like I was like cripplingly scared and I was slowly able to like make that go away over time.

00:12:10.43
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:12:19.71
Nathaniel Lamont
So I think that’s a factor, ah certainly, be just having a fear of of heights. But I don’t think that, I don’t know if that’s the case now because I’m not scared to be up high anymore. That’s not a big fear of mine. I’ve done, you know, some, you know, I’ve done some big wall stuff in Squamish and that didn’t really worry me too much, so long it was is as as it was easy.

00:12:45.25
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:12:45.44
Nathaniel Lamont
more than like I knew I was totally in control. and I was climbing 5’9 or 5’10a in Squamish, and that’s like that means like if you’re doing an eight eight pitches, one of them is going to be five.

00:13:00.73
Nathaniel Lamont
It’s going to be that hard difficulty, so it’s yeah was pretty chill. um Yeah, so i don’t think it’s I don’t know if it’s fear of heights now, but that that’s definitely a start. and I guess the second aspect would be I had a pretty bad injury, ironically from bouldering, which I’m not scared of, but I dislocated my right shoulder and broke my arm, bouldering, indoors.

00:13:23.35
Neely Quinn
Mm.

00:13:26.79
Nathaniel Lamont
ah and I think, and that was actually when I started, when I was in recovery from that was when I started like lead climbing more and like getting more into that because I thought it was safer than bouldering. And yeah, maybe that that could be a factor, like having that kind of the fear and trauma back in the back of my mind of, of, you know, the, that injury from falling.

00:13:58.15
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm. Yeah, right. Especially at that time when it was so, yeah, fresh in your mind.

00:14:03.63
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, for sure. And I was learning about that was when I was learning about about lead climbing was just fresh off that injury. So I was, I think, analyzing all of the like, how to minimize risk in lead climbing.

00:14:20.29
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and potentially I know that when I’m coming back from injuries, I’m um i’m much more timid about doing hard moves um and falling weird. And so that does make sense that that might contribute to it.

00:14:32.13
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:14:34.53
Neely Quinn
And when you’re up there and you’re above your bolt, what thoughts are going through your mind? What are you actually afraid of?

00:14:42.98
Nathaniel Lamont
i’m I’m afraid that I’m going to… So outdoors, if it’s something easy, I’m worried that I’m going to hit a ledge usually.

00:14:51.77
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:14:52.56
Nathaniel Lamont
um Or even if it’s something a little bit tougher, if it’s like a vertical route. the area that I climb in in Quebec here, there’s a lot of granite and nice roots that are short.

00:15:03.29
Nathaniel Lamont
And a lot of the time, there’s it’s easy to hit a ledge. if you Well, I’ve never hit a ledge, but I imagine it’s easy.

00:15:10.89
Neely Quinn
susan

00:15:12.23
Nathaniel Lamont
It seems like ah easy to hit a ledge.

00:15:17.52
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, that. And then I’m also just I think scared that my, all kinds of things that seem irrational, I’m scared that my belayer has let out too much slack. I’m scared that this goes through my head, ah that my belayer’s not gonna catch the fall very well, I’m gonna hurt my back, or that i that my belayer is,

00:15:44.41
Nathaniel Lamont
I don’t know, using, a I’m thinking, are they using a Gregory or they using a ATC? Are they going to let go of me? I started thinking about the different like people that I’ve met who tell me about taking, you know, five meter falls and breaking their legs and stuff.

00:16:00.35
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm. All right. So you’re not trusting the belayer or the equipment that they’re using or their ability to use the equipment properly. What else?

00:16:10.73
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. It seems irrational to me actually, but yeah. um

00:16:17.61
Nathaniel Lamont
I’m thinking, I’m worried about getting pumped. ah in worried about Worried about worrying and it’s like a feedback loop. You start like, oh no, just relax. You’re going to get pumped if you worry too much and you’re going to over grip.

00:16:34.25
Neely Quinn
Okay. That is funny. You’re worried about worrying too much.

00:16:38.36
Nathaniel Lamont
but

00:16:39.00
Neely Quinn
Um, and, and you said you worried about getting pumped. What would happen if you got pumped that you’re worried about, but you’re worried that you’ll get pumped and then you’ll fall and then yell.

00:16:45.19
Nathaniel Lamont
I mean, realistically, I would fall and I’d be fine. Most likely.

00:16:52.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah. One of these things might happen.

00:16:55.46
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:16:56.31
Neely Quinn
Okay. What else scares you up there?

00:16:59.50
Nathaniel Lamont
Hmm. I guess those are, those are the main things. Honestly, if I don’t have those kinds of thoughts taking me out of my body, I’m usually good to go.

00:17:15.70
Neely Quinn
Okay, so these things kind of all lead to the same worst case scenario, right?

00:17:17.65
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:17:25.07
Neely Quinn
You you fall, what is the worst case scenario for you?

00:17:29.61
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Somebody doesn’t catch my, my fall, my, my. Yeah. My partner doesn’t catch the fall and I hit the deck and break my back or something.

00:17:40.16
Neely Quinn
And then what?

00:17:45.55
Neely Quinn
Anything else?

00:17:47.13
Nathaniel Lamont
die. Potentially.

00:17:49.48
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:17:50.21
Nathaniel Lamont
and Yeah, definitely.

00:17:51.25
Neely Quinn
And can you see why that’s a totally reasonable fear?

00:17:56.87
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Cause in what you said earlier was this all seems really irrational to me, which I think is what we all do at some point.

00:18:03.74
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:18:06.62
Neely Quinn
We’re like, why am I scared? I’m being a baby. This is, this isn’t, this is fine.

00:18:11.64
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:18:12.26
Neely Quinn
And we kind of invalidate ourselves instead of letting ourselves say, yeah, I’m doing something that most humans don’t do. This isn’t normal or natural. Of course, I’m going to have fear.

00:18:21.40
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:18:22.57
Neely Quinn
It’s like ingrained in my brain to tell me not to do this.

00:18:27.38
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, that’s a good point.

00:18:31.67
Neely Quinn
And I think that what happens then is you invalidate yourself and then the fear just sort of lingers there forever. But can you validate yourself right now? Like, what would you say to me if I said, I’m really scared of falling and breaking my back and dying.

00:18:47.93
Nathaniel Lamont
I would probably say, well, if I was your belayer, I would probably say, well, it is a dangerous sport. It’s a valid fear to have, but I’ve got you.

00:18:59.51
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:19:02.23
Nathaniel Lamont
um you know I’ve been climbing for a while now and I am a safe climber. I’ve never dropped anybody before. keep people on a pretty, I don’t think I let people go wildly run out for no reason or yeah.

00:19:20.68
Neely Quinn
Okay. And how does that go ahead?

00:19:24.23
Nathaniel Lamont
No, no, no, please go ahead.

00:19:25.88
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And how does that feel to have that be said to you by yourself or an imaginary person?

00:19:33.76
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, it feels good. If I could hear that actually like absorb that in the moment. Yeah. It would feel very nice.

00:19:42.72
Neely Quinn
hu Yeah. And why, why do you think it’s nice to hear that?

00:19:51.25
Nathaniel Lamont
It’s nice to hear it because there’s no shame involved in it. There’s like a less of that. I think, yeah, definitely I’ve had.

00:20:03.26
Nathaniel Lamont
experiences of feeling shame around it. Like I’ve used, I think part of trying to organize my training and self coaching myself for training. I’ve looked at silly charts that I know are, you shouldn’t really take stock in, but it’s like, you know, you boulder this level and this is what level you should be sport climbing in. And I’m like, whoa, I’m sport climbing way lower than my bouldering level. So when I’ll take a,

00:20:32.16
Nathaniel Lamont
If I get scared above a bolt, my reaction often is, okay, I’m just going to jump on something harder, not something easier. Um, like I should be able to, or I’m going to just jump on this again and then it’ll, I’ll get, so sometimes it gets worse rather than better.

00:20:50.19
Neely Quinn
Yeah, which makes sense when you think about it, why that would get worse, why the fear would get worse when you go like if what you’re worried about is it sounds like is going into the unknown, not knowing what’s going to happen up there and falling and being afraid of the falling. And then you get on something even harder that is pumpier and more unknown. You know, like it makes sense that that would. But in your mind, you’re saying, but I should be able to do this.

00:21:19.10
Neely Quinn
and you’re not actually accepting where you are right now.

00:21:23.46
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, for sure. i Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. It’s a big I should or if it in my experience, I think although most climbers are super friendly and super accepting and non judgmental, I do think there’s a lingering kind of background of of still a bit of macho attitude sometimes that that can be that can exist in the sport. Like my experience climbing a little bit in Spain, people were super friendly who I climbed with, but sometimes

00:22:02.74
Nathaniel Lamont
you know, I don’t know, maybe it’s not macho, maybe it’s my own macho, but like seeing somebody climb in sneakers on like a something that I find hard is like with no chalk in August is like on slippery limestone is like, Oh, okay.

00:22:12.19
Neely Quinn
Mm.

00:22:21.94
Nathaniel Lamont
Maybe I’m just too scared or there’s something. I don’t know. Maybe I’m just not that good or

00:22:28.32
Neely Quinn
Well, ah and I want to validate too that there’s an extra layer of that for you as a man, you know, because we live in a society that believes that men should have no fear and no emotions and be brave.

00:22:33.82
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:22:42.54
Neely Quinn
And so that is another layer of shoulds for yourself. I shouldn’t be scared. What’s wrong with me?

00:22:48.62
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah Yeah.

00:22:50.32
Neely Quinn
I’m assuming.

00:22:51.53
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. ah This kind of like desire to be that, you know, climber who’s like doesn’t worry who’s like, you know, like ah that famous photo of, of, uh, uh, I can’t think of his name vermin.

00:23:14.41
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:23:14.46
Nathaniel Lamont
I can’t think of his, you know, drinking the beer, uh, one handed, like that kind of macho, uh, vibe of climbing.

00:23:23.01
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:23:23.49
Nathaniel Lamont
I can see that like, no fear, not worried.

00:23:25.95
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s still there. Definitely still there. Yeah. And, and this all comes back to you want to belong in this community. Like you, those are your people you want to belong and you want to fit in.

00:23:40.56
Neely Quinn
And so all of this is really understandable.

00:23:40.59
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:23:43.00
Neely Quinn
And when you’re up there above your bolt, it’s not just I’m scared. It’s that it’s that you want to belong and you want to fit in and you want to be accepted and loved and respected.

00:23:54.00
Neely Quinn
It’s that you’re afraid of dying or hurting yourself. And you’re also potentially putting yourself on too hard of things too quickly and advancing yourself and kind of micro traumatizing yourself up there.

00:24:09.00
Neely Quinn
So it’s a lot going on up there.

00:24:09.14
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:24:11.78
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah Yeah, I think that actually reminded me of one thing that may in the past have contributed to this a little bit. is When I was like first learning sport climbing, like my first time leading, I think the first maybe week of me leading indoors, I like jumped on a 5.11 and I don’t think I’d ever climbed much more than 5.11s on top row before that.

00:24:41.90
Nathaniel Lamont
And I took like a big fall for no reason, just because I got like i i jumped off, basically.

00:24:54.32
Neely Quinn
oh

00:24:54.34
Nathaniel Lamont
I yeah like i just like let go, because I was like, OK, I’m going to let myself take a big fall, because I know I’m safe here. um But my belair was not expecting me to fall in that moment.

00:25:08.58
Nathaniel Lamont
It was really silly. And so I was a bit extra run out and I felt like, I don’t know, six meters or something like that.

00:25:19.40
Nathaniel Lamont
And I think that scared the hell out of me.

00:25:22.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:25:23.24
Nathaniel Lamont
Making a big fall like that.

00:25:25.11
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:25:26.68
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:25:26.85
Neely Quinn
Yeah, your first lead fall basically was this giant run out fall that that was yes, it’s really scary and surprising for everyone.

00:25:36.68
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, yeah. um Yeah. ah Yeah. It was yeah my first my first week. I took quite a few falls before, but it was the first big one. And it was twice as big as anything I’d taken before.

00:25:46.81
Neely Quinn
OK.

00:25:49.38
Nathaniel Lamont
us

00:25:50.13
Neely Quinn
OK, so what do you think happened in that moment to you?

00:25:55.65
Nathaniel Lamont
I probably… I think in that moment I started questioning my decision making in that. I was like, oh, that was a dumb idea. And so maybe there’s like a bit of And I fell a lot more than I expected to.

00:26:17.26
Nathaniel Lamont
So I have a bit of, I think there’s a bit of fear in like not trusting myself in that. And then also fear of not having like as much control as I, uh, expect expected to have or hoped to have.

00:26:32.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:26:32.92
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Cause usually in bouldering, I have a pretty good mental imagery of like how I’m going to fall, if I’m going to fall on a move, um, and how far I’m going to fall, what way I’m going to fall.

00:26:44.64
Nathaniel Lamont
Um, yeah.

00:26:46.31
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And why do you have that mental imagery and bouldering?

00:26:49.52
Nathaniel Lamont
Because I’ve taken a lot of falls, like, yeah.

00:26:51.75
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And how many falls would you say if you had to guess, have you taken in sport climbing?

00:26:59.40
Nathaniel Lamont
Not many, like true falls where, where I didn’t like, and like where I was. heading up when I was falling, uh, like on the way, you know, I was actually trying like probably maybe a hundred, like not much.

00:27:19.13
Neely Quinn
Okay. I mean, a hundred is considerable.

00:27:22.09
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. But over three years climbing three days a week, it’s not that much. If I consider like, I probably take thousands of falls, uh, bouldering in a year.

00:27:32.56
Neely Quinn
What happens after you fall? Tell me about the mental and emotional state and anything you do after you fall.

00:27:42.07
Nathaniel Lamont
Um.

00:27:47.60
Nathaniel Lamont
Usually if I actually take a fall. It it actually it it so long as it’s not unnecessary. um it it will lessen my fear.

00:28:01.58
Nathaniel Lamont
But if i if I succumb to, like I would say succumb to the fear by like, you know, throwing myself off or saying take or whatever, the fear stays very strong.

00:28:12.89
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:28:12.93
Nathaniel Lamont
Like, um yeah, if I take like a complete accidental fall where I didn’t, like i my a foot pop, where I really didn’t expect to fall, I don’t find that actually that scary.

00:28:24.61
Nathaniel Lamont
it’s more the like pumped and or I don’t think I can do the next move kind of fall where I’m not like actually committing myself and um yeah I find those I find that to be the kind of like very scary fall I’m not sure if I answered your question correctly there but

00:28:44.67
Neely Quinn
Yeah. and Well, those are really valid things to talk about too, because the what you said earlier was that you sort of lost faith in your judgment a little bit when you took that big fall.

00:28:56.46
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:28:58.41
Neely Quinn
And what you’re saying is that you have fear when you have time to notice or to like question your judgment, basically, or question your abilities.

00:29:09.53
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, for sure. Or yeah, I would say that I, I don’t, I think lately it’s, it’s hard for me to remember because I think I’ve been,

00:29:24.61
Nathaniel Lamont
avoiding doing too much lead climbing and actually I think the fear has gotten worse because of that. Um, I’ll only do it like, you know, I’ll only lead like a couple of times a month, if at all, right now.

00:29:38.51
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:29:40.18
Nathaniel Lamont
Um, about kind of just annoyed.

00:29:40.30
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:29:44.01
Neely Quinn
Well, you also mentioned control and this is a really common thing that comes up for obvious reasons with everyone who has fear and climbing, because there is a certain level of being out of control.

00:29:59.70
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:30:01.18
Neely Quinn
um And when you come down to it, like what I had to do about 10 years ago was say to myself, I would rather die and continue climbing than not continue climbing.

00:30:15.71
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:30:17.55
Neely Quinn
And I think that that’s like the very the heart of it.

00:30:18.49
Nathaniel Lamont
Mm-hmm.

00:30:22.35
Neely Quinn
and And so you give up control on some very big level there, which is hard to do and it was like a come to Jesus moment for me.

00:30:28.15
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:33.22
Neely Quinn
But you also said, I am afraid of hitting ledges. I don’t fully trust my belayer or their equipment. i I’m afraid of getting pumped and worried so those ones don’t count but like hitting ledges and not trusting your belayer. Those things are definitely more within your control.

00:30:55.84
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:30:56.16
Neely Quinn
you know You don’t actually have to climb on routes that you might hit ledges on. like That’s legit scary and dangerous if you’re actually maybe going to hit a ledge.

00:31:06.85
Neely Quinn
And that’s a choice you can make.

00:31:07.04
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:31:08.49
Neely Quinn
But the other thing with your belayers is you know before I go climbing with a newer person, I’m going to go into the gym with them. I’m going to take practice balls with them. I’m going to check out how they belay.

00:31:19.09
Neely Quinn
I’m going to watch them belay other people. I’m gonna teach them how I want to be belayed very frankly. I don’t want you to leave that a much slack out I want you to jump at this point.

00:31:29.46
Neely Quinn
I want you to stay close to the wall I want you to like this is what I want and you have that right to do that So some of these things you do have control over and I’m wondering how you feel about Perhaps taking a little bit more control

00:31:35.78
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:31:44.94
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, I think that’s a i think that’s a that’s a good point. i would like to I would like to do that more. I think it takes some it takes a little bit of courage to do that, to be able to say you know to somebody who

00:32:02.13
Nathaniel Lamont
I mean, I’m in a stage of trying to develop new belayer relationships because my partner is pregnant and not climbing right now. And yes, ah it it takes a little courage to say, like, I would prefer if you, you know, belayed me with a gree-gree or something like that instead of with the ATC, even though I don’t know.

00:32:27.48
Nathaniel Lamont
Maybe that’s an irrational choice, but I know there’s less likelihood of somebody making a mistake.

00:32:34.88
Neely Quinn
I don’t think it’s irrational at all.

00:32:36.71
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:32:36.79
Neely Quinn
I think it’s safety.

00:32:38.50
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:32:38.66
Neely Quinn
And I think that if, of course it’s uncomfortable and awkward.

00:32:44.18
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:32:44.36
Neely Quinn
Like we all know it’s, that’s just an uncomfortable conversation that nobody wants to have.

00:32:49.16
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:32:49.38
Neely Quinn
And you don’t even want to ask somebody to use a Gregory who doesn’t know how to use a Gregory. And so then it’s like, who do I climb with?

00:32:53.91
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:56.22
Neely Quinn
Do I climb with this person?

00:32:56.41
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah. Yeah.

00:32:59.15
Neely Quinn
ah Can I spend time with them teaching them how to properly use a Greek or whatever it is, you know, like all these are within your your ability.

00:33:03.08
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah,

00:33:06.19
Neely Quinn
But I always think of it like, would I rather have this awkward conversation with this person or would I rather die because of this person?

00:33:13.92
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:33:15.17
Neely Quinn
Like, it’s absolutely just comes down to that.

00:33:18.54
Nathaniel Lamont
That’s a good point.

00:33:21.05
Nathaniel Lamont
You say it like that.

00:33:21.79
Neely Quinn
Like, do i do I want to spare my life or their feelings? And you can say these things in a really humbled way where you’re like, look, I struggle with a lot of fear in climbing and so I’m just trying to ah work through that and this would really help me.

00:33:26.25
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:33:36.66
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, yeah. um Yeah, that’s a good point. being Being vulnerable, I think, could be helpful in that so that the person doesn’t take it personally.

00:33:47.95
Neely Quinn
Right. It’s very disarming to be vulnerable about that stuff.

00:33:52.15
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, yeah.

00:33:52.99
Neely Quinn
Yeah. um So there’s a lot to cover here because we do want to get to how you want to practice this. But I am curious, ah going over sort of some of what we just talked about, could you imagine being in the moment and being scared and taking a moment, whether you’re on the ground or on the rope, just resting?

00:34:16.55
Neely Quinn
and validating yourself instead of shooting yourself or shaming yourself for having the fear. Could you imagine saying to yourself, I’m scared. It’s understandable that I’m scared. It’s OK that I’m scared. And now I have a choice. Do I want to keep going or do I want to come down? Because that’s basically the this very short conversation you can have with yourself to let it flow through you and leave instead of just simmering.

00:34:43.79
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, I can imagine that for sure. I could also like Yeah, that kind of reminds me of some things I’ve learned from meditating, which is like just like noting, okay, this is what you’re feeling right now.

00:34:58.50
Nathaniel Lamont
This is like, oh, this is like, I’m thinking about this right now.

00:34:58.69
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:35:04.97
Nathaniel Lamont
And yeah, I could see that being disarming because if I don’t do that, then I’m likely to go down a fear kind of rabbit hole of where I start playing out horrible scenarios in my head.

00:35:20.78
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:35:22.69
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, instead of just saying, okay, I’m scared, what am I going to do?

00:35:24.12
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you might be legit scared for legit reasons, and you might just come down and do something else.

00:35:36.66
Nathaniel Lamont
I think that’s a good point, actually, that maybe doing fall practice would be helpful for me or just, I mean, maybe stop bouldering for a while and stop using that as a, as a crutch and just like fully focus on, on sport climbing more.

00:35:54.23
Nathaniel Lamont
Um, because I think I don’t know, or I don’t trust myself to judge whether or not, like what my zone of safety is exactly in sport climbing.

00:36:07.35
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly.

00:36:08.55
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:36:09.24
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And for perspective, I want you to understand like when I’m bouldering, because I don’t really boulder that much, except on a board that’s like three feet tall, I have no idea what is going to happen if I fall.

00:36:17.72
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:36:21.99
Neely Quinn
No idea.

00:36:22.17
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:36:23.69
Neely Quinn
And so the same is going to be true for you. And the reason that I had asked earlier what happens after you fall is because i I think that most of the time when people fall, we get this exhilaration or fear, and then we’re sitting on the rope and we’re just like,

00:36:38.07
Nathaniel Lamont
Hmm.

00:36:41.06
Neely Quinn
Well, that happened and I’m scared or whatever. But one step that we can take is acknowledging. Like I was up there and I was doing this move and now I’m here. And did I hit anything on the way? Did I twist? Did i in my the my leg get wrapped around the rope? Did anything of adverse happen?

00:37:05.09
Neely Quinn
And if not, that’s a really great thing to acknowledge. Like nothing happened. This is how far I fell. Um, and then you can start to, to have a better map of it.

00:37:19.33
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:37:20.35
Neely Quinn
But when you’re doing it on purpose with fall practice, then you get an even better mental image. Cause you’re doing it over and over and over like many reps, like you’ve done with bouldering.

00:37:28.86
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:37:30.88
Neely Quinn
Does that make sense? Like, do you have any thoughts on that?

00:37:34.69
Nathaniel Lamont
um Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense for me. um Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:37:43.14
Neely Quinn
So what could you, ah before we get into fall practice, I’m wondering how important it is for you to get better at sport climbing.

00:37:53.27
Neely Quinn
Cause you said that you’ve mostly just been bouldering and it seems like if you’re going route climbing, you’re top roping a lot. And so how important is this for you right now?

00:38:01.71
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:38:05.81
Nathaniel Lamont
um Yeah, it’s it’s pretty important for me, partly because most of the people that I meet in this area, I just moved to this area, but most of the people that I’ve met in this area and other places in Quebec that I’ve gone to, sport climb. I haven’t met them any boulders, honestly.

00:38:29.03
Nathaniel Lamont
I suppose I could make a more, more of a concerted effort, but there’s just my partners not really interested in bouldering outside. Most people I know are, you know,

00:38:42.42
Nathaniel Lamont
not super intense about climbing and don’t want to go risk, you know, breaking their ankle and not being able to get to go to work in the morning for to go bolder outside.

00:38:54.20
Nathaniel Lamont
So I find just, yeah, I have more opportunities to climb outside if I sport climb more.

00:39:02.24
Neely Quinn
OK. And if that makes sense, is that something that you actually want to do, is support content?

00:39:04.11
Nathaniel Lamont
i mean

00:39:09.98
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, definitely. I actually really like sport climbing, and I’ve had great experiences sport climbing. I think it’s really beautiful. It’s a wonderful sensation.

00:39:21.34
Nathaniel Lamont
It’s different, obviously, than bouldering. and But I like challenging myself in sport climbing. i love I actually like outdoor sport climbing more than I like out or outdoor bouldering overall, all I think.

00:39:35.42
Nathaniel Lamont
has like You get to go to so many beautiful locations, and yeah, it’s like it’s ah it’s like it’s very motivating for me. So yes, is the answer.

00:39:45.24
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. I love that. I wasn’t actually expecting such a vehement answer like that. I really like that. You seem really passionate about it and you have love for it, which is great. So what do you think is the number one thing holding you back from enjoying it more and getting better?

00:40:09.45
Nathaniel Lamont
Well, I think the that the first thing is properly dedicating myself to taking a period of just sport climbing instead of bouldering as well.

00:40:24.12
Nathaniel Lamont
Uh, because I overthink it a lot of the time. I listen to a lot of podcasts, like you’re like, like training beta. And sometimes because I listened to so many, I’ll think, okay, why can’t just stop bouldering? You know, I’ll get weak. And, uh, but like strength is definitely not my problem in, in sport.

00:40:45.26
Nathaniel Lamont
in sport climbing and I’m not, I know from my injury that I can get back to the same baseline of bouldering within like three months of not bouldering for six months.

00:40:56.60
Nathaniel Lamont
So it’s not, there’s no, I know that it’s fine to stop.

00:40:56.92
Neely Quinn
Right.

00:41:01.70
Nathaniel Lamont
for a

00:41:03.81
Neely Quinn
Okay, that’s good. I’m glad you know that rationally. And so if you were to take a period of time where you’re just sport climbing or mostly sport climbing, what do you think you would need to work on the most? I’m assuming it’s this, but I’m curious if that’s true.

00:41:22.54
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, i think ah I think it would be this. And yeah, I think it’s mostly this because I think my endurance is not amazing because I’m a boulder, but I think that the biggest like low hanging fruit that I have for endurance is not physical endurance training. It’s technical ability, like learning how to learning how to be like find good resting positions and be able to use my mind better.

00:41:52.93
Nathaniel Lamont
And I think that being less scared will allow me to use my mind a lot better on the en route.

00:41:59.22
Neely Quinn
Yeah, these are some compelling reasons to practice sport climbing and falling, I think.

00:42:05.26
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:42:06.33
Neely Quinn
Because if I said to you, my biggest weakness is I have very weak fingers, very weak and really bad.

00:42:14.11
Nathaniel Lamont
Hmm.

00:42:16.90
Neely Quinn
um I can’t I’m just blanking on the word, but basically very weak fingers. What would you tell me to do?

00:42:25.58
Nathaniel Lamont
I don’t know, climb more crimpy problems that are slightly overhanging and like board climb more maybe, or maybe hang board.

00:42:34.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So if we take that and put it with this, like, what do you think you need to do in order to overcome some of this fear and be more comfortable up there so you can think straight?

00:42:51.12
Nathaniel Lamont
I mean,

00:42:54.00
Nathaniel Lamont
If I were to approach it from a strength perspective, it would be start a little bit easier than I think I can handle and progress gradually in volume and intensity over time so I don’t get injured.

00:43:01.96
Neely Quinn
Totally.

00:43:11.68
Neely Quinn
That sounds good. That sounds like a good plan to start with.

00:43:13.86
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:43:15.36
Neely Quinn
Okay, I have suggestions here, but I want to i want to try to pull this out of you because i want to I want to have you do what resonates with you and what you will actually do.

00:43:26.27
Neely Quinn
So if you were to put a protocol together for yourself to help yourself practice falling, what would that look like? What would easier and less intense look like for you?

00:43:39.85
Nathaniel Lamont
I suppose taking maybe after I’ve climbed a bit and warmed up a little bit,

00:43:49.69
Nathaniel Lamont
taking some like gradually, like taking some falls that are like maybe start with like on top rope, even, or below the bolt. Um, and taking like, I don’t know, like a certain number of them before going on with just my session of climbing, um, say like, I don’t know, 10 every day, um, falls before I, before I get into like actual, like more challenging climbing. And.

00:44:23.63
Nathaniel Lamont
and

00:44:26.44
Nathaniel Lamont
Every session or every maybe every week, I try to fall a little bit higher up the bolt. maybe like Every week, let’s say, let’s say i stay stick yeah I’ll keep it the same at the same height for for one week. And then the next week, I would fall at like waist height or, well, maybe not even that high, at shoulder height. And then the next week, I’d fall at chest height and waist height above the bolt.

00:44:55.17
Nathaniel Lamont
And then eventually, obviously work up to in in safe, in a safe context, you know, uh, falling like well above, like, you know, feet above the bolt or yeah.

00:45:09.69
Neely Quinn
Yeah, yeah. That’s a very um nice and slow progression. And that’s what feels comfortable for you. Like you’re not going to traumatize yourself doing that.

00:45:22.19
Nathaniel Lamont
Hmm.

00:45:24.08
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:45:25.53
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:45:25.64
Neely Quinn
um Anything else with that protocol that you want to add?

00:45:30.98
Nathaniel Lamont
Maybe at like the end of like a month of that, if like don’t do anything crazy, but maybe jump on. like something that’s like at my onsite level, on lead and like put myself into a so scenario where I’m likely to fall, um like just at my onsite level or maybe a notch above um where I’m likely to fall, just to let myself feel that, you know, once or twice and feel like I can have a little victory at the end.

00:46:10.45
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm. So the victory would be to take the fall and be while you’re trying.

00:46:17.60
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, the victory I think would be to, yeah, take a fall but don’t like, yeah, take like a natural fall ideally.

00:46:28.53
Neely Quinn
Yeah, victory.

00:46:31.28
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah Yeah.

00:46:31.51
Neely Quinn
Okay, now we’re referring to falling as a victory.

00:46:34.61
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, don’t want to take this too far.

00:46:36.41
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah, this is a great protocol. And we’re I would be interested to see what the timing is on this because I find that when people do this and when I have done this, it goes much faster than you think it’s going to go.

00:46:52.18
Neely Quinn
You start taking falls, you start understanding what’s going to happen, and you’re like, okay, on this next fall, I’m going to go to my waist.

00:46:52.37
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:46:59.87
Neely Quinn
Okay, cool. On this next one, I’m going to go to my knees or whatever.

00:47:03.32
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:47:03.93
Neely Quinn
And I’m not saying that that’s what should happen, but you might surprise yourself. um So would you like my suggestions for what to add like little nuances to this?

00:47:15.92
Nathaniel Lamont
Of course.

00:47:16.93
Neely Quinn
Cool. So I think that you’re taking falls on top rope first is a great idea, or at least below your bolt that’s already clipped. And doing it either in your warmups or in your pre you know-try hard climbs is a good idea too. 10 falls sounds great. 5 to 10 falls in a session. Sounds wonderful.

00:47:40.58
Neely Quinn
Um, and then progressing it as you feel comfortable and staying not within your comfort zone, but just a little bit outside of your comfort zone, but definitely not in what Hazel Findlay calls, I think she calls it the panic zone.

00:47:50.38
Nathaniel Lamont
Okay.

00:47:53.83
Neely Quinn
We don’t want to get there, which you know, what that feels like you’ve been there.

00:47:57.58
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:47:58.37
Neely Quinn
um The things that you can progress are like how in control you are. So when you’re even taking that top rope fall, you can, the most in control you can be is looking down, pausing and saying, falling and watching your belayer see you, you know?

00:48:14.63
Nathaniel Lamont
and

00:48:18.06
Neely Quinn
And then the opposite end of that would be being above your bolt, jumping for the next hold earnestly and looking up. and not announcing your fall. So there are so many steps in between that that you can take and you can even choose on a day to day basis where you are emotionally, what you feel like doing. You could say, all right, today I’m going to take three falls where I am at my shoulder and I’m not announcing that I’m falling, but I am looking down.

00:48:55.19
Neely Quinn
when I fall. And I’m sort of faking it to go to the next hold.

00:48:56.62
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:48:59.33
Neely Quinn
You can play around with that as much as you want.

00:49:02.84
Nathaniel Lamont
and I think that sounds great, actually. I’m glad you mentioned about reminded me of the the hardest level of of at the top rope fall because I think that that would, even that level would probably be a little bit, I think I would think twice before doing, I’d realized that I tried to dino a few weeks ago honor on top rope on like something that was hard for me.

00:49:28.95
Nathaniel Lamont
And I i had a hard time committing to it fully.

00:49:34.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:49:34.27
Nathaniel Lamont
So I think i think that that would be a good a good place to, to to remind myself that it maybe I shouldn’t just jump right onto waist height falls on lead.

00:49:46.25
Neely Quinn
Totally. Right. And in that moment with the dino, what do you well, it’s harder on the dino.

00:49:54.77
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:49:55.27
Neely Quinn
If there were any holds in between that, though, what do you think you could have done that would have eased you into taking a dino top ruffle?

00:50:05.21
Nathaniel Lamont
I mean, even if there aren’t holds in between, like if there holds in between, I can just try to dino to a closer hold. But even if there aren’t, I could do basically what I do on bouldering, which is when I don’t know how I’m going to fall on a dino.

00:50:18.11
Nathaniel Lamont
I don’t fully commit the first time. Like I i’ll go and I’ll just slap the hold and then see, Oh, how am I falling?

00:50:20.27
Neely Quinn
Right.

00:50:24.06
Nathaniel Lamont
Okay. It’s not going to send me spinning out of control.

00:50:27.38
Neely Quinn
Perfect.

00:50:28.36
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:50:28.69
Neely Quinn
Yes. And you can do that in many, many steps. You could just like slightly let go and then jump a little bit.

00:50:34.16
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:50:35.82
Neely Quinn
And that’s the same thing you can do on lead too. So in your first session, let’s try to imagine your first session doing this. What could you imagine doing?

00:50:47.28
Nathaniel Lamont
I can imagine. Well, first off, I guess first first would be have a conversation with my belayer that I want to do this.

00:50:54.85
Neely Quinn
yes awesome yeah

00:50:55.79
Nathaniel Lamont
And yeah, just check in with them that they’re cool with that and explain to them why I’m into that and um yeah. So, and if, if I, yeah, then making sure that I have a belayer who’s cool with that.

00:51:11.01
Nathaniel Lamont
And then the next thing would be to, yeah, I guess take some, and some easier to maybe progressively slightly harder top rope falls on the first day.

00:51:19.95
Neely Quinn
Yes, awesome.

00:51:24.82
Neely Quinn
All right.

00:51:25.38
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Um, and maybe try like a half-hearted, uh, like jump to a hold, um, at the end.

00:51:36.52
Neely Quinn
On top rope.

00:51:37.57
Nathaniel Lamont
and top row

00:51:38.21
Neely Quinn
Yeah, got it. Okay. So you’re easing into basically top rope dyno. Like you were saying is intimidating for you.

00:51:43.50
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:51:44.59
Neely Quinn
Cool.

00:51:44.80
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Try like to like slap a hold or something.

00:51:47.66
Neely Quinn
Nice. And how many of these do you think would be fulfilling and useful for you to do?

00:51:54.37
Nathaniel Lamont
Uh, of, I mean, total falls 10.

00:51:58.73
Neely Quinn
Total, yeah.

00:52:00.35
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. Sounds like a good number.

00:52:02.45
Neely Quinn
Okay. And would you be willing to do this even on harder climbs and not just your warmups?

00:52:03.28
Nathaniel Lamont
So I’m not.

00:52:11.31
Nathaniel Lamont
ah Yeah.

00:52:13.57
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:52:13.72
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:52:15.01
Neely Quinn
So pepper them through your session.

00:52:18.73
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah Yeah, that could be good. Because it’s, I mean, indoor, even though I try to say, oh, I want to try to onsite this, it’s not really important.

00:52:28.83
Neely Quinn
Right. And that’s what I was getting at is, on the first session, it’s different. You can do whatever you want. But once we get into it, if you’re only doing them on your warmups, then we’re just conditioning ourselves to not do it when we’re trying hard.

00:52:43.29
Neely Quinn
And that’s what we’re trying to get to.

00:52:45.31
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:52:45.47
Neely Quinn
So you have to sort of not waste goes because you’re not wasting them. But that’s what it’s going to feel like. You’re going to be like, well, I want to on-site that.

00:52:54.58
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:52:56.01
Neely Quinn
I want to red point this, but I’m going to fall instead.

00:52:58.89
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:52:59.89
Neely Quinn
You’re sacrificing time for sure. but But I will say encouragingly that and this isn’t, it doesn’t take that long to start feeling more comfortable. Like in a matter of a couple of weeks, you’re going to feel different about this.

00:53:09.49
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:53:13.21
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:53:14.11
Neely Quinn
And so it’s really not that much of a sacrifice in your performance climbing.

00:53:19.62
Nathaniel Lamont
Well, that would be good news because that’s the definition of no low-hanging fruit, right?

00:53:25.84
Neely Quinn
Exactly, yeah.

00:53:26.10
Nathaniel Lamont
but

00:53:27.56
Neely Quinn
But the other thing we want to remember to do is once you’ve fallen, I really want you to take stock of where you are in space. It’s going to be ah different on top rope obviously, but I want you to see like what exactly just happened and you can even talk about it with your belayer if there’s somebody that’s willing to do that.

00:53:47.32
Neely Quinn
and kind of even measure like, where did I fall from? Where did I fall to? Did my belayer catch me how I wanted them to and then talk to them about that? You can be like, look, you can keep me a little tighter on top rope.

00:53:59.93
Neely Quinn
I don’t need to fall that far.

00:54:02.18
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:54:02.96
Neely Quinn
Or vice versa, whatever you want.

00:54:05.28
Nathaniel Lamont
Hmm.

00:54:06.63
Neely Quinn
Okay, so taking stock, acknowledging. And then on the emotional level, how do you think you can prepare yourself for these sessions?

00:54:17.71
Nathaniel Lamont
I mean, ideally, it’s, it’s better if I haven’t had like a crazy stressful day um when going in. That’s not always possible. But

00:54:32.27
Nathaniel Lamont
I guess being able to, even if I have had a stressful day, try to take a moment to like calm myself or meditate a little bit for a few minutes, um, so that I’m not going in with like an excessively, like too much just anxiety in my system.

00:54:51.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s a lot of great self awareness that you have right there that I think a lot of people don’t. And so, do you imagine that you could do that in your car before you go into the gym.

00:55:03.76
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that would, that would be a good place actually.

00:55:06.63
Neely Quinn
okay

00:55:10.04
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and I find that taking one or two minutes to do five second breaths in and five second breaths out and sometimes elongating the breaths out can be extremely stress relieving.

00:55:23.60
Neely Quinn
And you obviously have a meditation practice that you know, but that’s another tool that you can use. You can also do that in the moment when you’re on a climb and you’re particularly scared, five seconds in, five seconds out.

00:55:28.58
Nathaniel Lamont
here

00:55:35.20
Neely Quinn
It immediately calms down your system and then you can think straight.

00:55:38.83
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:55:40.20
Neely Quinn
Um, and then while you’re up there and you’re scared and you’re like, okay, I told myself I was going to do this, but I really don’t want to do this. What do you think you can do in that moment to help yourself get there?

00:55:56.41
Nathaniel Lamont
um I find there’s like, so long as I’m being present and intentional, In myself, I find there’s like a little switch that I can kind of flip if I need to get past that kind of that feeling. It’s like that sensation that you get before jumping in a cold bath or or something like that, or ice bath. It’s like this ah moment of, I don’t wanna do this, but okay, I’m gonna do it. I think so long as I’m not avoiding it and I’m facing it in bite size,

00:56:36.67
Nathaniel Lamont
portions, I shouldn’t find it too difficult.

00:56:40.91
Neely Quinn
Great.

00:56:43.88
Neely Quinn
And the last thing here is I can’t make this plan for you because I don’t know what’s going to happen on your first, second, third sessions. I don’t know how quickly it’s going to evolve, but what I do recommend is that before your sessions, you have an intention set, like this kind of fall, this many of them at this point in my session, so that you have basically an assignment set up for yourself because it can be really easy to be like, I don’t feel like it, you know?

00:56:53.62
Nathaniel Lamont
yeah

00:57:03.31
Nathaniel Lamont
huh

00:57:14.53
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:57:15.38
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:57:16.88
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, that’s a good point. I think I’ve done that in the past of just like, I know I should do this, but it’d be a lot more fun to jump on a new or jump on the project or something.

00:57:22.22
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:57:27.10
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And always coming back to that motivation of I love sport climbing. I want to be better at it and I want to be an equal part of this community.

00:57:39.75
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah.

00:57:40.43
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Like those are your main reasons.

00:57:44.16
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, that’s a good point. And actually asking myself before I’m going to do something or go before I’m going to write a plan for myself in the gym, like, is this going to help me with that? Is like spending three hours on the moonboard today going to help me with this goal? No. OK, maybe I should.

00:58:03.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s going to make you strong, but you’re not going to be able to utilize that strength. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. So in the beginning, we made this goal of finding clarity and some more tools to use to improve your fear in sport climbing. How do you feel about that goal right now? I feel we’ve done.

00:58:25.56
Nathaniel Lamont
Feels good. Feels nice to talk about it because now i’m like hold it’s easier to hold myself accountable for like actually doing it.

00:58:36.79
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And how are you feeling in terms of like hopefulness about this?

00:58:45.04
Nathaniel Lamont
I feel good, actually. if If it plays out as you say, that it moves a little faster than like, say like a strength training protocol or something.

00:58:55.86
Neely Quinn
Right.

00:58:56.29
Nathaniel Lamont
but Treating it like a protocol where I write it in my schedule, um where I write it in like, okay, this is on the menu for today seems like a good idea.

00:59:06.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And on a scale from one to 10, one being the least and 10 being the most, how committed to this are you?

00:59:17.04
Nathaniel Lamont
Uh, nine.

00:59:20.66
Neely Quinn
Wow. Okay. That’s great.

00:59:23.38
Nathaniel Lamont
I feel good.

00:59:24.10
Neely Quinn
All right. Cool. Um, well, I think that we can wrap up now. How are you feeling about things in general?

00:59:34.14
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. I’m excited. I’m excited to get all that Turkey in my system.

00:59:39.37
Neely Quinn
all that turkey in your system?

00:59:39.40
Nathaniel Lamont
think Oh, Christmas.

00:59:43.04
Neely Quinn
What do you mean by that? ah Oh, got it. Okay. We’re having salmon ads doesn’t even register.

00:59:47.40
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah. yeah

00:59:51.87
Neely Quinn
Cool. Well, um, I have a lot of hope for you. You seem to be really self-aware and motivated. And so i I think this is going to go great for you. So I wish you the best. And I also thank you again for, for coming on the show and doing this publicly, because I have a feeling it probably helped a lot of people to hear you say these things and for us to work through them.

01:00:14.44
Nathaniel Lamont
Yeah, I hope so. Thanks so much for having me on the show. neilie I really appreciate it.

01:00:18.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah. All right. Well, good luck.

01:00:21.42
Nathaniel Lamont
Thanks.