[laughs]

 

Kris Peters: No, it’s crazy. I was doing Crossfit competitions and all these things, and I was squatting 300 pounds, and I just warmed-up with 135 and I was on the ground and the doctor was like, “Your lower back is so weak.” Definitely something that we don’t really think about as athletes but it’s really, really important to work on.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so you say that your lower back is, or was, super weak. What do you even do about that if you’re deadlifting and squatting and all of that?

 

Kris Peters: Sure, sure. So, a lot of times, what you can get away with is being very strong overall to perform movements, and getting away with just your strength. You’ve got strong arms, you’ve got strong shoulders, strong legs, and you can do stuff that will allow you to compensate for the lack of a weak core but eventually it, for me, it caught up to me where my lower back went out on me in a warm-up set. What I started doing a lot was a lot of Supermans, a lot of Roman chair workouts, just anything I can do to focus my lower back, and doing more plank work. It’s just kind of one of those things where, even as a trainer, we kind of forget how important certain things are because it’s kind of boring/it’s not the most fun, but I really focus on a lot of core now. Probably 3-4 days a week of specific core workouts, and they probably last 25-35 minutes, so…yeah. Very, very indepth.

 

Neely Quinn: What do you think that’s done for your back? I’m asking this because I think a lot of people have lower back issues, so…

 

Kris Peters: Sure. I feel, I mean my back feels, great now. Like, I was very nervous going back into the gym. If anyone has ever suffered from a lower back injury, you know how devastating it is. I could not move for days. It was so bad and so for me, right now, I mean obviously the benefits of having a thinner waistline and looking better is always good, but I just feel stronger. I feel more agile. I just feel like I can/I feel like when I place myself in a position to lift or workout, I just feel more stable. Any of my back pain is totally gone. I just feel way, way better.

 

Neely Quinn: Cool. As climbers specifically, why is it important to train core? What does our core allow us to do on the wall?

 

Kris Peters: I mean, so, when it comes to climbing, if you’re on anything that’s steep and you’ve got to pull yourself into the wall, a lot of climbers, they grip down their fingers and they pull in their biceps and they try and just lock it in. Your core is really going to allow you to kind of bring your trunk back close to the wall. You can actually kind of weight your core more, you know, really put a lot of weight in that midsection, really flexing that core and breathing through the movements. I just think your core, too, allows you to create, you know, yourself to like, kind of lock and load, and fire to do a move more effectively instead of just trying to pull to it.

I think a lot of people don’t know and they don’t understand how to engage their core. For any athlete, whether it’s climbing, whatever, a stronger core is going to let you perform better. It’s going to allow you to do movements with more efficiency than you would if you just had really strong fingers and really strong biceps. For climbers, you’re in so many different positions, so many awkward positions where you really need to engage your entire trunk to keep yourself tight to the wall, or create tension instead of just trying to use your shoulders, or just trying to do this move because you’re a strong guy and you can just muscle through it. You know, if you can really engage your core and allow your body to move into the next move, that’s going to be more beneficial for any climber. When we have a stronger core, we use our whole body when we climb, and we have less injuries.

 

Neely Quinn: Right. You said something about overhanging climbs but I’ve actually talked to Paige Claassen about this, and she noticed when she was climbing slabs, she actually noticed she needed a lot of core, I think for, like, high-stepping and keeping your body into the wall, so I guess it applies to any kind of climber.

 

Kris Peters: Yeah, I totally agree. You’re performing challenging movements and you have to keep that tension and you have to keep your body locked-in, so I totally agree with that.

 

Neely Quinn: Do you think there’s a difference between the way a climber needs to train their core as opposed to a sprinter or a basketball player or something?

 

Kris Peters: I, personally, don’t. In all my years of training athletes, when I was in Florida and no matter where I’ve been, we’ve always trained core with the same intentions of strengthening that part of the body. Yes, some athletes can do harder core workouts than others. I can take this athlete and his core is so strong, we can do all these advanced movements. I can take this athlete and they’re not very strong in the core, so we have to do the basics. It really depends on the level of athlete you are and how strong that muscle group is, and that’s for any sport, of any lift. No matter what it is, you’re going to perform the same movements but it depends on what level you’re at, you know, and how we can progressively make it harder or regress it to make it easier.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so what’s the best way to train core for climbers? Let’s take it from a beginner climber. What would a – not necessarily a beginner climber, but somebody who’s never trained core before – what would they do?

 

Kris Peters: First off, you have to see like, can you hold a plank for 30 seconds? Where do you feel/where is the burn? Is the burn in your shoulders or in your core? I try to take basic core movements and see what the athlete can do. If I have a new climber, basically what we’ll try to do is we’ll modify the intensity of the workout, so it’s like, “I want you to do planks for 30 seconds,” because I need your core to engage. I don’t want you to rely on your shoulders to stay in that plank position. Or, “Let’s do a side crunch,” or “Let’s do a movement: let’s do hip raises.” Just different things that are a little safer for that client, to make sure that what they’re doing is effective but also not going to cause injury.

If you try to perform some certain exercises with your core and you’re not there yet, you can blow your back out, you can strain a muscle, you can get a hernia, you can do all these different things. It’s all about knowing the limitations, of knowing how much time to let someone be in a position, how many reps, how many sets, and really just for the trainer, if you’re working with someone, is just to see, okay – where are they at? That intuition for a trainer to understand what someone can handle is a big part of what I do. For any beginner climber, it’s going to be very, very modified, compared to any higher-up athlete.

 

Neely Quinn: Can you give me an example of a very difficult core exercise that maybe a beginner shouldn’t do?

 

Kris Peters: Um…I would not have a beginner person do anything with the TRX, as far as, like, a hard plank, or pikes, or saws. I wouldn’t do any toes-to-bar. I wouldn’t do any windshield wipers. I wouldn’t do – just different movements that are going to not just require core but more strength, but yeah…those are things I would not do.

I would focus more on body weight planks, body weight side planks, Supermans, Russian twists, hip raises, crunches, things that you can kind of have your client be in a safer position than opposed to elevated pikes on the gymnasts’ bars. There’s just so many different things you can throw at people that a beginner should not do.

 

Neely Quinn: Having trained with you, I know that you love the TRX. Can you tell me what the TRX is, for anybody who doesn’t know, and why you love it so much?

 

Kris Peters: I like it so much because it’s so flippin’ hard. It’s just one of the best pieces of equipment I’ve ever used, and I still stand by it. If you think you’re good on TRX, I promise you I can give you a workout that will destroy you. I just think there’s so many things you can do with it. You can add equipment with it to make it even harder, you know? I just think it’s very challenging, athletic movements that are required to perform these moves correctly, so I just think for the scenarios climbers are in, I can sometimes mimic that on the TRX. I can create different types of exercises and have ‘option A’ to ‘option Z,’ you know, all these different ways to make it more challenging.

It’s just my favorite thing to use. The TRX, if you don’t know what it is, is a yellow and black, nylon strap system. There’s a lot of things out there that mimic it, but I really think the TRX is the easiest to set-up, it’s the easiest to adjust, and it’s just fast and effective. Some of the stuff that mimics it is a pain in the butt to adjust the straps, set them up properly, or even hang it from a bar. Some of them are two different straps, and it’s just a pain, where the TRX is just very simple. Yes, they’re expensive. You can find them very cheap on eBay or Craigslist or something. I have a TRX always and all my clients use it.

 

Neely Quinn: So, just for anybody who still doesn’t understand what it is, it’s like these two long straps that you can either put both of your feet into or both of your hands into, so they’re elevated off the ground and you can kind of move them around.

 

Kris Peters: Yeah. If you’re a climbing gym and you’re listening to this, I highly recommend that you get it for your clients or if you’re a coach, I highly recommend you use it with your athletes.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. A guy named Jamie wrote in this question recently. Thank you Jamie. He says: “As we know, pure strength building often requires low reps and high weight. My question is: why are the core muscles treated differently, especially when the use of the core in climbing is often dynamic and explosive for just a few seconds at a time, and not always a medium-to-low intensity as many core workouts tend to be? I would be very interested in a core training principles subject in one of your mini podcasts.”

Alright. So, what do you have to say about that?

 

Kris Peters: So, thinking about that question, it’s – you can create core workouts that are very high intensity, as far as a strength-specific zone. So, for like 6-10 reps, they’re very, very hard. I could say, “Okay, Jamie, I want you to put this 20-pound plate between your legs. I want you to raise it over your head and touch that bar.” The chances of that person being able to do it more than 10 times is – it’s going to be very challenging and the movement, as long as the movement is done correctly, you’re going to really stress that abdomen in a way that’s a lot different than 50 crunches.

So, you can create scenarios with your core training where it will have that sensation like you do 6-10 deadlifts, where you know you’re trying to build that strength, but core is a very specific part of your body where a lot of movements – you know, you can’t really lift 285 pounds just using your core. It’s tough in that sense because our legs will just drive the weight up. For bench press, our chest is very big, our arms are very strong so we can push the weight over. With the core, being precise and just a little more delicate with it, at times, is the way to say it, if that makes any sense. Just really trying to create a way where you’re working with muscles that are very/a lot smaller than your arms and your chest, and it’s just having to strengthen those up is a little different than the pure strength movements of powerlifting.

But again, you can create something where 6-8 reps can be hard if I put a 45-pound weight on your back and have you do TRX saws. You might only get eight of those. You can do that but, most of the time with any of my clients, I don’t really hit a zone like that with their core. I’ve found the most effective ways are to do high intensity of higher rep, or longer time and less rest to be more effective for their core strength.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Can you give me three more examples – or two or three more examples – of how you could make an ab exercise or a core exercise weighted?

 

Kris Peters: How to make it weighted?

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah.

 

Kris Peters: I mean, you could put on a weight vest. You can put a weight on your back or you can hold weights in your arms, all different ways you can/those are three different ways you can add weight to your routine, so yeah. Some of my guys put their feet in the TRX plank and I put 45/50-pounds on their back and they hold that for 15-20 seconds. That’s a very intense, intense plank right there so…yeah. Those are different ways. You can also put ankle weights on and raise your feet up to a bar and create more sensation that way. Those are different ways you can add weight to a core routine.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. That’s great. I have a question for myself. I just went to Rifle this last week, as I said, and I got on my project and it turns out the hardest move for me, which I was in denial about, is this move where it’s a knee bar. It’s a vertical knee bar and I basically have my knee at my chest and I have to do a sit-up, basically, to get to the next hold. I’m wondering – first of all, because I know that knee bar strength has a lot to do with core and Seth and I were trying to figure out a way to simulate training for knee bars, but in this particular case, how do you think I should train?

 

Kris Peters: What I would do, and I don’t know if any of the gyms around you have this, so there’s two different options: if you can hook – some pull-up bars have a system where there’s a low bar and a high bar and you can kind of hook your heels and feet into it. I’d basically have you hang upside down vertically, and basically have you do a sit-up, and try and get all the way up. Or, you can buy devices you have these wraps around your ankles and they have hooks on them, and you hook these hooks onto the bar. Your feet are strapped into these pieces of equipment and you hook it on the bar, so again, you’re hanging upside down vertically, and you can do a full sit-up. You’re trying to do a knee bar of that nature, the goal is, “Neely, I need you to be in this type of position and I need you to get up,” so I would create that scenario somehow with a bar. Either get your feet positioned where there’s tension on your toes and heels and you do the sit-up, or getting those apparatusus and hanging you from the bar to do a full sit-up, if that makes sense.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, that totally makes sense. You’re a genius. Thank you!

 

Kris Peters: You’re welcome! And if you send it, I want all the credit!

 

Neely Quinn: [laughs] For sure.

 

Kris Peters: [laughing] I’m kidding.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. I would like for our last question, for you to give me a sample core workout, maybe for a mediumly strong person.

 

Kris Peters: If I was going to have a medium strong person do a core workout – again, for anyone who’s impartial against the TRX, I’m just really sorry, this is just my thing – I would have them go through a circuit. I would have every exercise be rep-based, and then you have a 5-10 second rest in between each exercise. That’s just enough time to let you get setup for the next movement. If I was, like, “Okay, Neely, I want you to do 20 TRX pikes, rest for 10 seconds, 20 TRX saws, rest for 10 seconds, 20 hip raises, rest for 10, and then hold a plank for a minute.” When you complete all four, you then rest 1-2 minutes, and then you try 2-4 sets of that.

That’s just something that I would – again, I’m all about the circuit-type of training for your core, and it changes. Sometimes I have people focus on one thing. We’ll do planks for one minute, rest for one minute, do it again. That’s an easy workout that can be challenging, based on the amount of sets you do and if you rest 1-2 minutes.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, and how long would that take total?

 

Kris Peters: That’s probably going to take you, I don’t know, 10-15 minutes to do that?

 

Neely Quinn: Oh okay, so that’s not too bad. And how many times a week would you have people do that?

 

Kris Peters: I usually have people try and train core four times a week. Sometimes their exercises are a little different, sometimes it’s laid out a little bit differently, some days everything is based on one exercise at a time, where you go through all the sets and move on to the next one and then sometimes it’s the circuit training. One thing that I really do like, I think it’s a really good piece of equipment – I’m trying to remember the name of it – it’s the Hyperextension machine. If any of you guys have access to one of those, it’s a really good, solid piece of equipment. You hook your feet in it, and Neely – that’d actually be a good thing for you to look into, too, for your knee bar, but Hyperextension machine is a really good way to try to strengthen that core. If you have access to that, let me know and I can give you a sample workout.

 

Neely Quinn: Cool. This was great. Very efficient. Thank you very much.

 

Kris Peters: You’re very, very welcome. I hope everyone has a great day! Again, if anyone has questions, feel free to email us and we’d love to take in any more thoughts on other stuff you want to hear about in the podcast.

 

Neely Quinn: Cool. Alright, thanks Kris.

 

Kris Peters: Thanks guys. See ya. Bye.

 

Neely Quinn: I hope you enjoyed that interview with Kris Peters. I certainly learned a lot. If you see me in the gym hanging upside down doing sit-ups, you will know why. [laughs] I know what I have to do.

If you want to train with Kris, again, you can go to www.trainingbeta.com and go to the ‘Personal Training’ tab and you can check out his offerings. If you want to do any of his workouts, our route training program, our bouldering strength and power program, as well as our power endurance program all were created by him. All of those also have core workouts and shoulder workouts and power endurance and everything you need to be a good, strong climber.

I think that’s it for today. In a couple days I’ll be putting out an episode with Aaron Mulkey, who’s an ice and mixed climber, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime, thanks for listening. Have fun training and I’ll talk to you soon!

 

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