[laughs]

 

Kris Peters: [laughs] The worst.

 

Neely Quinn: So, today we’re going to talk about the difference between training for routes and training for boulder problems.

 

Kris Peters: Yes.

 

Neely Quinn: Alright. My question is, in general, is there a huge difference between the two of those things?

 

Kris Peters: I believe so. The main difference is, I kind of look at it like track athletes. You have endurance runners and you have sprinters and that’s kind of what you have with route climbers versus people who boulder. Where, on a route, you’re training for 30-60 moves and bouldering, between 6-12 and I do think that there’s different aspects of training that you need to focus on to achieve those specific goals. Now, can you still train similar? Yes. I believe that route climbers do need to campus and boulderers do need to work on endurance to be more fit, so there is a lot of overlap, but I do believe, at the end of the day, the goals are different. The ways a training plan is structured is going to look different.

 

Neely Quinn: I always like to think about this in terms of runners or some other sport so I can wrap my head around it in a different way, so let’s talk about that. You said that long distance runners are more like route climbers, but there’s a difference between a 5-whatever, 5.12 climber, climbing up a long 5.10 climb as opposed to a long 5.12 climb. How does that relate with runners? Would the 5.12 climb be more like an uphill, long run or how do those things relate?

 

Kris Peters: I mean, I think, if you’re going to compare all of this to running, if a 5.12 climber is climbing 5.10, like, I think that would be like a short, moderate, easy run. Going up a steep 5.12 – I mean, it depends on the climber, really. It depends on their strengths and weaknesses, but I would definitely consider that more like, yes, a runner climbing something more steeper. Like, they’re running a marathon with hills opposed to something flat, so I think definitely the terrain will add a different aspect to what the person’s capable of doing. That makes sense.

 

Neely Quinn: And then another way it seems like you could look like it is like a 5.12 climb for that 5.12 climber, would maybe be like a long run with sprint intervals stuck in there.

 

Kris Peters: Yes. Yeah, exactly. I think, even with runners that I work with right now, we do have those intervals just so that way they do have that ability to have a burst. I think on those longer climbs, a route climber does need to have the ability to have that big movement. I think, at least 90% of the people who reach out to us for Training Beta, they all say, like, “I’m a route climber but I have a hard time with big moves.” Those runners, they need to increase their times so you work on that ability to have a burst and to have a little more fast-twitch so that that way they can improve on those times. I think it goes the same with route climbers, where just being able to produce power in certain moments is very crucial.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, like, obviously we have cruxes on our routes and you have to be able to recruit everything you’ve got in the middle of being pumped. [laughs]

 

Kris Peters: Exactly, exactly.

 

Neely Quinn: So how do you train for that?

 

Kris Peters: What I do is, for the route climbers that struggle with that, we will go through a power cycle and I think even your runners, they do that. They go through cycles where they focus on their sprinting and their power. So, I think for a route climber, I’ve seen a lot of gains, okay, campusing, the weighted pull-ups, and just doing explosive movements like a push-and-jerk. Just things that are going to allow them to produce power throughout their body and then even, like, one-arm weighted negatives. I just think a lot of route climbers I see just climb routes. They just climb routes and climb routes, they try their onsight level, their project level, their redpoint level, and they forget about all these different aspects that a lot of boulderers focus on that are very beneficial for route climbers.

I think, you know, with our route climbing program we have power cycles. We have a whole five-week cycle where you’re focusing on weighted pull-ups, campusing, like, to work on your ability to have more burst, and I think that’s, again, a big weakness for a lot of route climbers. Even people who are climbing 5.13s, you know, they get shut down on big, powerful movements to make that next jump.

I think one person I can think of a lot is Joe Kinder. When Joe was going through our boot camp last year, like – Joe climbs at a very hard level but he’s never trained. He’s never trained power and he’s a phenomenal route climber. As soon as we introduced those power movements into his training, he just saw huge gains. I think something like that is a huge example for someone who just climbs, just climbs, focuses on routes, and then as soon as you add that power cycle into their program, there was a huge jump in his performance.

 

Neely Quinn: I think that a lot of route climbers are like, “Well, I can’t just focus on power because I’m going to lose all this endurance that I’ve gained.” What’s your answer to that?

 

Kris Peters: My answer to that is, that’s why you cycle before you go on your big trips. We have some people, one guy named Damon, on our training programs. He just left for Spain. We were training – we started our training in January and we did multiple cycles of power and focusing on his strength. Then, six weeks out, he went straight into endurance and power endurance. He’s in Spain now, having a great time.

You just have to know how to structure your training. When is your trip? When are you trying to perform at a high level? And just be prepared for that because, what the goal is, for Damon, we did all this power work so when we went to the endurance, it’s like he was able to get that fitness back. He’s in Spain, he’s peaking, and he’s having a great time. He has power plus his endurance so he’s able to go harder than he was last year in Spain. Just as long as you know how to structure it, when to get ready, when to work on that endurance side of it, you should be fine. It’s just understanding how to put it all together.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so he did a five-week cycle of power and strength and then…

 

Kris Peters: He actually did two cycles of power and strength. We did two cycles of that with a one week break in between and then we moved into, like, power endurance and endurance. He saw huge, huge gains in his power and his finger strength and so we started adding the endurance aspect. He was climbing almost a grade harder, and once he got endurance back, he could finish the climb.

 

Neely Quinn: And so, before he left for Spain, how long/how many weeks was he doing power endurance?

 

Kris Peters: We were doing it for about three and a half weeks and then moved into endurance for about three weeks.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so in about six weeks he got his endurance back?

 

Kris Peters: All his fitness back, yeah.

 

Neely Quinn: And he didn’t lose too much of the power that he had gained? Or were you still doing power during those…

 

Kris Peters: He was still having some stuff, like, finger hangs and some weighted pull-up stuff, just to kinda keep it in there, but he wasn’t campusing anymore, he wasn’t doing a lot of the big, powerful stuff, just because we wanted to get the volume in of climbing. We were focusing on minor things, like his fingers and some of the big pull stuff, just to keep that stuff activated.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Let’s get into the nitty-gritty here. During a power phase/power and strength phase, can you describe what a week would look like if you’re climbing three or four days a week? Or if you’re training three or four days a week?

 

Kris Peters: Yeah, the way I kinda structure it is I usually like to start the week off with your campusing or your weighted pull-ups or your weighted hangs, things like that. Then the next day is your climbing-specific day. A lot of times, what I’ll have clients do is focus on a project level and just working on hard moves. Again, depending on the client, I take their weight, their height, all that stuff into consideration to kind of get an idea of how big they are and we’ll focus on weight-specific movements.

For a lot of my girls, we work on their shoulders and their upper back. I kinda have the same stuff for most women, because it’s been the biggest struggle for a lot of them, is that upper body strength.

We’ll have the campusing and weighted stuff on Monday, then we’ll have hard climbing Tuesday with weights, Wednesday is usually a rest day, and we’ll kind of repeat that same segment for Thursday and Friday. Again, starting off with the power on Thursday and then climbing-specifics on Friday. The weekends are optional.

I have a lot of people that want to climb outside. We have a lot of people that, again, they kind of/four days is good but if they want that fifth day, Saturday is more like a, kinda/more climbing-specific. Working more just on your climbing, whether it’s a little bit of power endurance, or it might just be a free day, but I try to make sure that their bodies aren’t getting too much beat down five days a week. For a lot of people that’s too much for them so usually I’ll have it be Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, with two days of the campusing and maybe some weighted hangs and then climb-specific with an emphasis on weight training.

The core stuff I have everyone do is very specific. Again, I try to make hard movements with that, where they’re really having to stress their mid-section and really keep everything engaged.

That’s kind of the typical week of a power phase.

 

Neely Quinn: And when you say that you’re trying to work with ‘shoulders and back,’ what kinds of lifts and exercises are you having them do?

 

Kris Peters: Really, a lot of basic stuff. Again, a lot of climbers aren’t really used to all of it so we focus, again, on lateral, frontal, reverse flys, the I’s, Y’s, and T’s. The way we change that up is the amount of reps we do, the amount of sets, how heavy is the weight? So there’s a lot of ways to target those muscles that can give you benefits based off of, like, you know, how you structure it. Another one I really like with people right now is a push-jerk…

 

Neely Quinn: What is a push-jerk?

 

Kris Peters: Push-jerk is, just again, it’s hard to explain without video but it’s kinda like an overhead press except you’re using your lower body as an explosive tool to put the weight over your head. The reason I like that is it allows my clients to produce more power through their body and, again, using their core, more of that explosiveness to put that weight over their head. Trying to make climbers more athletic, more explosive, again, and use more of their body so it isn’t just trying to press heavy weight over their head. That’s been a really effective one. Yeah.

 

Neely Quinn: And then for core – I think we’ve talked about this before but, and I know what you’re doing with me with the TRX, but in general, what are you having people do?

 

Kris Peters: One workout I like a lot, I kinda try and superset the core so I’ll do something like a TRX saw followed by v-ups. I’ll have a client do 25 saws, 25 v-ups, and that’s one set, you know. They’ll rest about a minute or two and try and complete that 2-4 times. For a lot of people that is a very challenging core workout but again, for climbing, core is so vital for people to have more success and to be fit and to feel stronger, so I really, really try to take it to people in the core workouts.

Another one that I like is ab rollers. You do 25 then you do 25 toes-to-bar. You’re just really trying to recruit a level of intensity for these climbers, again, just to focus on making sure their lower back is strong, that the lower abdomens are strong so when they do have steeper terrain, they can really pull themselves into the wall and engage that core.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Let’s talk about – that’s power and strength, and it seems like that’s something that you would also do for bouldering, to train for bouldering.

 

Kris Peters: Yes.

 

Neely Quinn: So let’s talk about – actually, I want to go back and talk a little bit more about the phase of power endurance and endurance for routes. So like, your guy who just went to Spain, what did his cycles look like for that?

 

Kris Peters: For power endurance, you say?

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, for power endurance.

 

Kris Peters: For his power endurance we went into, like, a hard/easy, hard/easy, again, just trying to make him climb at his maximum level then have a recovery route then do it again. Endurance is going to be more like, okay, I wanted him to spend 15 minutes on the wall or I wanted him to do 4x4s on the same route. With the power endurance, again, I’m pushing them to their limit and then having them recover on a route. So, if he climbs 5.12a, his easy route was 5.10. Something where he could just move, recover, then he does the 5.12a again and then comes back down and does another recovery route and that’s one set. It’s kind of like a 4×4. The way it’s structured is he’s having that hard moment followed by something very easy, where in endurance, I want them to sustain, kind of that long pump. I’ll be like, okay, let’s do this route four times, or let’s stay on the wall for 15 minutes, or I’ll create a workout, a systems board workout like, okay I want you to do laps on the systems board for 10 minutes straight, back and forth. Just really trying to keep them there for a longer time.

With sprinting, you’ll sprint a quarter mile and then you’ll walk it out. You’ll do it again, walk it out, where the endurance running is, again, okay, I want four hard laps. Just give me your miles as fast as you can. That’s kind of how it was structured for him.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, cool. Let’s move on to bouldering. For boulderers, do they ever/they do have these power endurance cycles. Like in our bouldering program that you created, there are plenty of power endurance cycles. Why is that so important for boulderers?

 

Kris Peters: Boulderers are trying at such a hard limit when they go outside and want to send their project, so I really want them to be fit and in shape so if they don’t send, they can come off, they can rest, and they can still give that same hard attempt again on their next go. I try to make sure the boulderers, because of those/again, because of that power endurance cycle that, when they do try hard, they do go outside, instead of four attempts on their project they can give it 8-10 attempts. You know, or again, because they’re so fit, they can find themselves on the rock longer without being too pumped or tired and continue to try hard. I think, again, that’s a very crucial thing for boulderers is just to have that fitness base, so you can give lots of attempts at your limit.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Alright, our time is basically up but I just wanna recap by saying that, or asking you a couple questions about our bouldering program and our route program. They’re basically set up exactly how you just described, right?

 

Kris Peters: Yes.

 

Neely Quinn: So, it’s three workouts every week?

 

Kris Peters: Yeah, it’s three workouts every week. Every cycle is five weeks and then after every five weeks, you get a rest week. Again, the cycles we hit are power endurance, power, we have finger training. For the route program we do have endurance cycles. Everything kind of just lines-up in the way of how I would just structure a plan. It’s three workouts a week, we have modifications for everyone where you can create things to be harder. We have videos for people to see if they don’t understand what one of the exercises is and we try to be as descriptive as possible on each workout so there’s good direction for the athlete when they’re going to train. So, yeah, it’s a great program.

I think Training Beta does some promo stuff where you can try it out for a week or two to see if you like it. It’s a good thing to have for people that are busy, that have families or busy jobs. They can just have these workouts which are designed for them to just go in, look at it, and have structure.

 

Neely Quinn: Cool. Yeah, that’s how I feel about it, which is why I wanted you to create them, so thank you.

 

Kris Peters: [laughs] You’re welcome, you’re welcome.

 

Neely Quinn: Thanks for the talk today. I appreciate your wisdom.

 

Kris Peters: Thanks, guys. Everyone have a great day. Take care.

 

Neely Quinn: Thanks for listening to that interview with Kris Peters. I hope you enjoyed it and I hope you learned something. I was thinking about it and there are three other interviews that I want to point you toward if you have more interest in learning about this. Jorg Verhoeven, Adam Ondra, and an upcoming one with Sean McColl. It’s not out but it will be out in a couple days. Those three guys, they all train for both sport/route and bouldering World Cups, all the time, so they’re constantly juggling and balancing their training so that they can stay strong for both. Those interviews are great for this topic, and we definitely talk about it.

Coming up next week, I don’t actually know what we’re going to be talking about with Kris. If you have questions, send them to me at neely@trainingbeta.com and we’ll try to get to as many of them as we can.

Other than that, if you want more help with your training, Kris does personal training and you can find out more about that at www.trainingbeta.com and at the top it says ‘Personal Training.’ He’ll do an assessment of your climbing and your weaknesses and strengths at the beginning, and then he’ll give you a five-week program to follow. After the end of the five weeks, you can continue with him or you can go out on your own.

We also have other training programs on the site if your budget isn’t quite as big as a personal training budget. You can go check out all of those at www.trainingbeta.com and then at the top it says ‘Training Programs.’

So, that’s about it. I will talk to you guys, actually, in a couple of days when I put out the Sean McColl episode, so until then, thanks for listening.

 

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