Transcript

00:00:01.70
Neely Quinn
All right, Happy New Year, Alex. How are you doing?

00:00:03.55
Alex
Happy New Year, Neely. I’m good. I’m excited to be here with you today.

00:00:09.77
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s funny for entrepreneurs. This week and last week, like the Christmas and New Year week, I’m kind of like, ooh, nobody’s emailing me. I’m just going to work.

00:00:22.10
Neely Quinn
It’s like this time where I feel like I can really focus. And so here we both are entrepreneurs like doing a podcast episode on New Year’s Day. So thank you for doing that.

00:00:33.26
Alex
I was in bed by 10 and I nailed the dog’s anti-anxiety medicine for the fireworks perfectly too.

00:00:35.55
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right. Me too.

00:00:39.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:00:43.27
Neely Quinn
Oh, there were fire.

00:00:44.61
Alex
So I also put my AirPods in and I slept with those.

00:00:44.92
Neely Quinn
Oh yeah. Your neighborhood’s really into fireworks, huh?

00:00:49.73
Alex
So maybe I just, maybe there were a lot more and it bothered her more than I realized, but, but I think I really nailed it is what I’m trying to say.

00:00:55.52
Neely Quinn
Well, yeah, good job. Trazadone is your friend.

00:01:01.24
Alex
Yeah, for sure.

00:01:02.44
Neely Quinn
Uh, yeah. So today we are going to talk about, this was your idea and I think it was a great idea, which is what we’ve learned in 2024 about in our climbing lives.

00:01:16.14
Neely Quinn
Um, but this is kind of going to branch out a little bit into our normal lives too. Uh, and I’m really excited for this.

00:01:25.29
Alex
I am too. And I just want to say that I want to talk about some things that I hope people can um definitely provide some grace for and just like, yeah, I want to be vulnerable in this conversation and I want to talk about some stuff that can be a little challenging.

00:01:42.74
Alex
And so please listen and be nice. No, I don’t know another way of saying that.

00:01:48.92
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you listeners will find out what that is soon. But I just want to say I’m really proud of you for being willing to be vulnerable about this. And it’s like a part of your evolution that I’ve seen you go through this year.

00:02:05.32
Neely Quinn
So looking forward to that one. um And I’m just going to let you get started. So to preface this, though, what we’re trying to provide in this is just first of all, a conversation between friends, because I think people just like to hear that kind of thing. But also, I think that a lot of what we’ve learned can can be used in your life, too, like we all learn from each other and so that’s we’re trying to you know teach as well here so hopefully some of these things you can resonate with and and maybe use in your own life so we’re gonna have about five things each that were pretty big that we learned and the what we’re gonna do Alex is gonna go first and And then I’ll comment on hers and then I’ll go and Alex will comment on mine and so forth for all of our five things. So yeah, we’re going to have you go first. So what is your first one that you learned in 2024?

00:03:10.07
Alex
The first one, and this really became very visible in my one month trip to the red, but I had been protecting myself from experiencing fear or discomfort. Like it was my job. And I don’t know. I just suddenly realized, actually I suddenly realized when I dropped my wimp stick, my portable stick clip, like I just accidentally dropped it. And I know that’s bad. I feel bad, but nobody was hurt.

00:03:39.35
Alex
And I no longer had it and I thought about coming down because I was like, well, I no longer have my portable stick clip. So how am I going to get up this route? But I’d been on that route years before when I didn’t have one.

00:03:53.35
Alex
I didn’t have a wimp stick on my harness. And ah so I looked up, I was like, well, I did it before. I wonder if I could do it now. Um, and I just realized how important managing and experiencing fear and discomfort is to the satisfaction of my climbing. Like I left that climbing day feeling more satisfied and content and happy than I had the previous 30, 40 climbing days.

00:04:21.74
Neely Quinn
Because you challenged yourself and you did do the.

00:04:24.18
Alex
Yes, I did experience some fear. I didn’t just clip up and work on the moves until I wasn’t going to be afraid of them anymore.

00:04:27.11
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:04:31.91
Alex
I like kind of yo-yoed up a little bit, like climbed up was like, Oh, I’m scared here. I’m going to take a fall. And I ended up taking that fall like three or four times before I felt comfortable to go one or two whole tire to get to the next clip.

00:04:45.29
Alex
And, um, I just realized that I was stealing my struggle.

00:04:50.76
Neely Quinn
Wow, that’s really lovely. I was stealing my struggle. Can you say more about that?

00:04:56.19
Alex
Yeah. Um, so in coaching, especially with kids, it’s a, it’s a phrase that gets said a lot and discussed a lot because you don’t, you want to provide guidance.

00:05:09.91
Alex
But you don’t want to steal someone’s struggle because at the end of the day, that’s one of the main benefits of participating in a sport is struggling and ultimately overcoming whatever that is.

00:05:21.20
Alex
And it’s easy as a coach in that environment to just be like, here’s the beta or just clip up, don’t be scared or get on top rope or whatever it is, right?

00:05:31.83
Alex
Is to take away that when you see somebody experiencing discomfort and you want to just remove that for them.

00:05:38.32
Neely Quinn
You’re being like a doting mom on yourself.

00:05:40.55
Alex
Yes, yeah, but I was doing that to me because I got the tools that let me do it and I was just um subconsciously stealing all of my struggle.

00:05:43.66
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:05:47.24
Neely Quinn
Well, now I feel bad for making you a wimpy stick.

00:05:54.64
Alex
No, don’t, no, don’t. No, I love it and it it has its place. um and Yeah, so the other thing is I was really not wanting to feel uncomfortable for a big part of the year.

00:06:09.75
Alex
So the moment my skin would start hurting, I would just stop climbing. Um, or if I felt a little fatigued, I’d be done, which ended up being a lot of two pitch days.

00:06:20.68
Alex
I would warm up and get on my project one time and that would be it because I didn’t want to be uncomfortable.

00:06:27.21
Neely Quinn
Wow.

00:06:28.87
Alex
And when I was in the red, I was like, well, what if I do get on this another time? And what if my skin does hurt? And it was fine.

00:06:39.61
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:06:40.43
Alex
And it was fun. It was engaging. And again, I was like, now I’m having meaningful days that I feel very content and satisfied with without sending, but just those two things.

00:06:52.04
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:06:54.65
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So the reason that you’re feeling the content, the contentment and the satisfaction is because what?

00:07:03.39
Alex
I.

00:07:06.12
Alex
had a relationship and managed fear. Like I didn’t protect myself from it. I experienced that and overcame it and um and had a relationship conversation with it during the day.

00:07:12.17
Neely Quinn
Yes.

00:07:17.76
Alex
And I also pushed past the idea that I couldn’t be a little uncomfortable and still have fun.

00:07:24.33
Neely Quinn
What do you mean you had a relationship conversation with it?

00:07:29.08
Alex
I think when we eliminate it, basically we’re kicking it out of our lives. I’m like, i can I know I have the power to get on basically any route and not feel afraid. I could just clip up. That was really challenged on one of my objectives in the red when my stick clip didn’t reach any of the clips. That was annoying. um And it ended up being a big reason I never made progress on that route.

00:07:57.21
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:07:58.13
Alex
So I think we can kick out things that are hard to have near us or we can engage with them.

00:08:11.13
Neely Quinn
It’s kind of a really cool metaphor. It’s like the difference between being a ah chronic dater where you just date all the time. You go on one or two dates and you never commit to somebody.

00:08:25.51
Neely Quinn
And then, you know, on the opposite end, it’s like committing to a relationship and working through the hard things too.

00:08:31.36
Alex
Yeah, I think that’s a great metaphor.

00:08:33.49
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Which you came up with.

00:08:38.04
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So what does that mean for you going forward?

00:08:39.21
Alex
but That means that I just realized how important it is for me to seek out and be aware of times so when I’m like,

00:08:57.74
Alex
clipping up because I don’t want to feel afraid versus recognizing a little more time and energy and willingness to approach that. And it doesn’t mean I’m taking giant whippers that I’m in a stress response for.

00:09:12.26
Alex
It is not like that. It just means that I feel so much more engaged with my day.

00:09:19.77
Neely Quinn
Hmm hmm.

00:09:21.47
Alex
So not to do that. Like if I’m like, I could clip up here or I can totally take some falls and experience what it would be like to kind of work through this. That’s probably the better option for me.

00:09:35.22
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So you’re kind of pushing your, your stretch zone as Hazel would call it a little bit more. You’re like, in that’s your intention.

00:09:44.41
Alex
Totally. Yeah. And just, I think the summary is just really understanding that one of the main reasons I climb is to have conversations with my fear.

00:09:56.53
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:09:57.84
Alex
I have to let Millie out.

00:09:59.16
Neely Quinn
and go

00:09:59.38
Alex
One second.

00:10:15.78
Alex
Okay, I’m back.

00:10:18.46
Neely Quinn
So one thing that comes to mind about this is that by a lot of measures, like you had a very successful year, right? Like you did magnetar in the rifle season, and which is a 13D and it’s hard and it’s like been super challenging for you in the past when you’ve like sporadically gotten on it. And you did that with these like two pitch days.

00:10:47.09
Neely Quinn
And so you could just be like, well, I’m doing a thing a year, like that’s fine with me. Why should I change? But I think my question with it is what do you think could have been different about that if you had stretched a little bit more your comfort zone?

00:11:04.22
Alex
Hmm. I think I just lost a little bit of what I love about climbing over the year. Like I was on paper doing the things, having the sessions and I wouldn’t, I was enjoying my life. I’m like, Oh, I like being at the crag. I like getting on this route once, and but I wasn’t feeling.

00:11:29.22
Alex
that sense of like deep joy, gratitude and satisfaction at the end of my days. And I think I could have gotten a lot more of that out of my climbing days.

00:11:33.81
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:11:39.05
Alex
If I just started taking more falls and getting on it all one more time, pulling through the bottom instead of like falling and coming down and then working on the top or something like that.

00:11:43.57
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:11:51.65
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm. And last thing about this, I just want to call out like the difference between a a growth mindset and an outcome oriented mindset. Because when I asked you that question, I was like, she probably could have sent faster. And your which is outcome oriented, and your answer was so process oriented, I could have enjoyed myself a lot more.

00:12:13.96
Alex
Yeah.

00:12:16.96
Neely Quinn
Good job. And I mean, there’s a place for both. Like you can have both goals to enjoy the process and to want to send, um but it’s it’s cool because you are like the most growth oriented, process oriented climber.

00:12:30.98
Neely Quinn
I know, I think.

00:12:32.28
Alex
Oh, thank you.

00:12:33.47
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:12:33.78
Alex
I tried really hard.

00:12:35.17
Neely Quinn
I know. I know. And it works. Okay. Anything else you want to say about that?

00:12:41.67
Alex
No, just, I encourage people to explore what fear and discomfort is in their climbing and what it means to them and know that it’s an option.

00:12:54.46
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:12:56.47
Alex
It’s a dial that you can control, but in a lot of ways it’s like, what are you missing out on if you turn it way down?

00:13:04.44
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm. Yes. Cool. Thank you for that. All right. So that’s your number one.

00:13:13.98
Neely Quinn
And my number one is don’t ignore your body and continue to strength train. So in April, I was moonboarding and I just simply did a move where my left foot was on a hold. I like towed into it, pulled with my toe and did this giant move. um And I felt my hamstring like tweak. And it didn’t even stop my day. I kept bouldering. I just felt a little bit of discomfort. And then after that, it just got worse. and ah if Or it would like get a little bit better, and then it would be bad. And then and and i i looking back on it now, I feel like an old man. and who’s you Imagine like a grandpa, and he’s got like

00:14:11.83
Neely Quinn
a broken arm and he’s like, I’m fine. It’s just a flesh wound. you know I don’t need to go to the hospital like as he’s having a heart attack. That’s how I i’ve feel about myself where I’m like, why did I ignore this? I didn’t do anything for it. I didn’t go to a physical therapist. I went to a physical therapist and I had him needle me. That’s all at this extent of what I did.

00:14:38.17
Neely Quinn
And I was like, well, I needling made it worse. So I guess it’s just, this is just how my life is. And I did a lot of climbs with it and I sense some things that I’m proud of. And I think that’s part of why I was ignoring it is because I was still able to perform for the most part, but it was definitely holding me back and I really regret it. So I think that what I have learned is, which I i thought I had learned this lesson.

00:15:06.34
Neely Quinn
And I have preached this before is like, if you have an injury, get it looked at. Because what ended up happening is I went to the red and I got on Silky Smooth and I couldn’t really work on it because there’s a deep drop knee and a series of moves that you have to do on a heel hook. And those moves were just too painful for it.

00:15:29.81
Neely Quinn
and so Finally, I did get it checked out and I got an MRI and I i went to the Stedman Clinic and saw an orthopedic surgeon. and It turns out I have two tears, bursitis, a torn labrum, and three points of tendinitis or tendinosis in my leg.

00:15:48.13
Neely Quinn
And if I had even just known that, I would have known how to work on it because now I’m like, oh, this tendon needs this. And I know exactly what to do. So um I just encourage you to take care of yourself. And I had completely stopped strength training. So like no deadlifting, no squats, and no just like general body strengthening. And I think that that really ah affected the A, the fact that I got injured in the first place and B, like the fact that it didn’t heal. Cause if I had been doing any of that after I got injured, it probably would have helped.

00:16:23.99
Alex
Hmm. Okay. I have some questions for you.

00:16:26.37
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:16:27.64
Alex
What do you think you already said this a little bit, but what do you think about this specific injury at this specific time of your life made you want to put it under the rug?

00:16:41.06
Neely Quinn
That’s a really good question. I think it’s that this year was all about fun for me. And I just like have fallen. I i feel like I’m going to cry right now. I have just fallen so deeply back in love with climbing that I was like, I don’t I don’t want anything to take me away from that or even mentally take me away from that, because I know that I like over um analyze and I like get really worried about injuries.

00:17:15.78
Neely Quinn
And I just didn’t want it to be a part of my consciousness because it affects my joy in climbing. And it’s interesting because as soon as I got this diagnosis, everything hurts more.

00:17:22.43
Alex
Yeah.

00:17:26.61
Neely Quinn
It’s to like there’s so much neuroplastic stuff going on here where it’s like, you know, like psychosomatic pain. And I know that about myself and it’s common. Like I’m not, I’m not weird.

00:17:36.96
Neely Quinn
ah most ah Most of us do this. Um, so yeah, I just didn’t want it to affect my joy and it didn’t for a long time until the red. And then in the red, I was like, no, I’m ready to try really hard again.

00:17:50.54
Alex
Mm-hmm.

00:17:51.18
Neely Quinn
And that is when I was like, okay, I can’t like the trying hard part is now in my fun vocabulary again. And so how I have to deal with it in order to have that kind of fun.

00:18:01.12
Alex
At first you know you had it. Yeah. That makes sense.

00:18:08.02
Neely Quinn
So that’s a good question. That’s good insight.

00:18:11.09
Alex
um And the other thing is I noticed the way you talked about the imaging I thought was very ah progressive in a lot of ways because I feel there’s this underlying war between PTs and surgeons and imaging, no imaging right now.

00:18:33.79
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:18:34.39
Alex
And I actually love the way you talked about it, that you got imaging, you saw you had these things and

00:18:38.35
Neely Quinn
What do you mean?

00:18:44.07
Alex
It was, it can be used for information for progressive loading, rehab, and strengthening all the things. And it wasn’t just, I saw, I have tears. My life is over. I’m never going to walk again. I need like, who’s going to do surgery on this? Like it just to me seemed like the next step between having a relationship with imaging and rehab.

00:19:07.89
Neely Quinn
Yeah. ah Well, and luckily, like I appreciate that. And luckily the surgeon was definitely like, you don’t need surgery. These are minor tears. You just need to do PT and potentially injections, like PRP injections. But it was really frustrating. I went to several PTs before I got imaging and they were all like, well,

00:19:30.20
Neely Quinn
maybe it’s ah maybe it’s this maybe it’s that I don’t really know what it is and I was like well I want to know what it like I can’t rehab this if I don’t know what it is so sometimes PTs just have their limits yeah thank you

00:19:44.08
Alex
I think that’s all really well said. And I think you’re navigating this beautifully.

00:19:53.02
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And going forward, I appreciate that. it Going forward, like you and I have already talked about this, but I was so excited to go back, to like come home from the red, rehab my leg, and then go back and like send it in March. And now that pressure that I put on myself has made things worse. And this kind of injury can take months and months to go away.

00:20:17.24
Neely Quinn
And so I’ve given up on that dream. And with the, you know, I’m suspending hope, but I’ve taken the pressure off myself. And the my only job right now is to rehab this.

00:20:28.96
Alex
Well, and it turned out to be quite the job. And I think that’s educational for everybody is some things are well-known easy. Like here’s point. Here’s the ape.

00:20:40.02
Alex
Here’s your Z. This is what you do. And then you’ll be better.

00:20:42.72
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:20:43.84
Alex
Hamstrings suck.

00:20:45.99
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s not even, it’s like one, it’s like hamstring, glute, labrum, it’s all of them.

00:20:46.61
Alex
They’re so hard.

00:20:50.01
Alex
Yeah. All of those, like it’s so hard.

00:20:52.90
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:20:53.69
Alex
And I feel like it’s turned into a really complicated puzzle actually.

00:20:59.02
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it sucks. But also my life is pretty rad.

00:21:01.20
Alex
Yeah.

00:21:02.33
Neely Quinn
So it’s okay. yeah And I also am going to work on the neuroplastic side of things and like read the way out again and listen to the podcast again and all that. But anyway, okay.

00:21:13.73
Neely Quinn
Thank you for listening to me about that. And I’m curious what your second thing that you learned in 2024 was.

00:21:21.05
Alex
Um, my second thing is about managing allostatic load slash overload. Um, and so. the definition of that actually, can you provide the definition of what that is?

00:21:36.07
Neely Quinn
Oh gosh, I don’t know off the top of my head.

00:21:37.94
Alex
Okay, well, I’ll do my best just explaining it in the way that what it means to me. It basically means that you have all this life stuff going on and the amount of stress you get from

00:21:48.17
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:21:50.88
Alex
Everything combined is that allostatic load. And I know as a athlete, we love to pretend that whatever’s happening in our life does not cross over into our sport.

00:22:05.43
Alex
And so it can be really easy to be having chronic stress and not actually reducing our expectations or demands in our sport.

00:22:05.61
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:22:18.36
Neely Quinn
Yes.

00:22:19.34
Alex
Yeah.

00:22:19.82
Neely Quinn
In other words, if you’re having family stress or work stress, you still come to the crag or the gym expecting to perform as if you had none.

00:22:29.42
Alex
Yes. And that sets us all up to fail.

00:22:32.18
Neely Quinn
Yes.

00:22:32.69
Alex
I’m a firm, like a big fail. Um, and it often makes things worse and not better.

00:22:35.24
Neely Quinn
right

00:22:38.39
Alex
And I think it can often make us feel like we have barriers or problems that we don’t actually have because when I’m experiencing a lot of family stress, I am more afraid to fall.

00:22:53.23
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:22:53.91
Alex
I am more unwilling to put myself in those uncomfortable situations.

00:22:54.71
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:22:59.00
Alex
And so rewind a little bit towards the beginning of my year, I had a really pretty traumatic, sudden mental health crisis in my inner circle, my family, and it really knocked me off my feet.

00:23:15.34
Alex
And it was something that was ongoing for months. Um, and so. Bringing that with me to my climbing season was really interesting. oh Interesting is a nice way of saying it. It was really hard. um I had all these goals, dreams, and ways I wanted to feel, but I was feeling just too stressed and frazzled and on edge to actually do them, to show up into that space.

00:23:48.61
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and honestly, this so much ah affected your number one thing that you learned, right? like you Of course, you don’t want to put in a bunch of burns on a really hard, scary climb.

00:24:00.87
Alex
No, I just didn’t have it in me.

00:24:02.77
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:24:03.53
Alex
I didn’t want to feel scared. I was already feeling scared like 24 seven about like mental health stuff and all that. Um, and, and I was doing a lot of therapy at the time too, just trying to process everything that was going on.

00:24:17.76
Alex
I was like ruminating a lot about. thoughts, childhood, and showing up with all that to perform was just too much. And one of the things I’m most proud of myself for over the year is that I listened to that.

00:24:31.75
Neely Quinn
Mmhmm.

00:24:32.29
Alex
And I was like, its I’m not going to get on my climb again if I don’t want to. I’m not going to climb if I don’t want to. I can come down the moment I think I stop having fun.

00:24:40.25
Neely Quinn
Mmhmm.

00:24:43.73
Alex
so They go hand in hand and I think that’s a really important thing is it’s not like I think there has to be a lot of grace we give ourselves for what ends up being a problem.

00:24:55.83
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And from what I saw this year, basically you, first of all, I just want to say that you were very self-aware through the whole thing. It was really impressive because you never just like stew in your emotions. You’re never just like, but you know, you, you’re always like, this is what’s going on with my emotions. I’m going to look at it from an objective view. I’m feeling an allostatic load that is too high. You know, like you would even say that.

00:25:23.16
Neely Quinn
Um, and then you got into this rhythm of not trying hard and, or not trying, not being too uncomfortable, et cetera. And then as things started to resolve with your family, then you were at the red and you were like, Oh, I think I’m ready now.

00:25:39.18
Neely Quinn
I think I’m like in this rut where I’m not challenging myself, but I think I’m ready to step out of the rut now.

00:25:45.27
Alex
And I had been ready for months, but I just got really comfortable being comfortable.

00:25:47.22
Neely Quinn
and Okay. Yeah.

00:25:51.40
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:25:51.58
Alex
I was like, timing is great when it doesn’t hurt and it’s not scary. um But back to that allostatic load, the things I did that I think I would do again in another sim situation is I gave myself permission to stop whenever I didn’t want to.

00:26:10.18
Alex
And i so I was constantly asking myself, do I want to get on this? um Do I want to get on my project today? And if I didn’t, I would just get on something else. um So I was checking in with that. The other thing is that I lowered my expectations. I continuously told myself, I don’t need to send anything this year. I don’t like i really tried hard to remove the pressure of needing to accomplish something. And it’s great that it ultimately happened. um But I had kind of checked out from needing to.

00:26:43.13
Neely Quinn
Mmhmm.

00:26:43.89
Alex
which is pretty new for me because typically I’m like, I must do at least one hard thing every year, which I’m trying, you know, I realized that’s even a thing through this year.

00:26:47.07
Neely Quinn
Mmhmm.

00:26:52.99
Alex
But, um, I also spent more of my time doing activities that helped me manage my stress and emotions and frazzled state, such as yoga and meditating.

00:27:10.09
Alex
So I could have used more time to just like try hard train to be stronger and all the things. And I just chose not to. I was like, no, I just need to sit on a yoga mat instead of, uh, do my bench presses and my whatever.

00:27:27.79
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:27:27.90
Alex
And so I’m really proud of that.

00:27:29.75
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I’m really proud of you too. And what do you think that did for you?

00:27:33.76
Alex
I think it gave me tools and more awareness in and around like how I’m actually doing instead of just kind of shoving it in a drawer and pushing on.

00:27:44.44
Alex
I’m like, Oh, actually it’s not the end of the world to just sit with these things a little bit.

00:27:51.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I mean, I think that what it did for you was make you not burnt out because I think that’s what people do.

00:27:57.63
Alex
Yeah.

00:27:58.27
Neely Quinn
They’re like, I’m stressed and I’m not performing. I’m just going to push through and do more. And then they have a higher allostatic load and then they just are like, Oh, fuck it. um

00:28:07.47
Alex
that’s a great observation because I never got burnt out and I think I i would have.

00:28:10.60
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:12.52
Alex
ah I think the other thing it did was by being aware of it and making decisions to not, it also gave me permission to verbally be open about what I was experiencing because I realized one of the main things holding me back from not pushing myself was not wanting to be seen, not pushing like by the people around me.

00:28:34.18
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:28:35.11
Alex
And so I just started bringing up what was going on in my world and it normalized it so much for me.

00:28:41.17
Neely Quinn
Oh man, it normalized it so much for everybody.

00:28:41.87
Alex
I was like, it was amazing.

00:28:43.76
Neely Quinn
You said that too.

00:28:45.82
Alex
All of a sudden I was like, oh, you too? Like you’ve experienced this in your family you’ve had? Yeah. And so that was really amazing.

00:28:53.40
Neely Quinn
Oh, that’s great. Yeah, it’s so I think it’s so important for us to validate each other in that way. Everybody goes through stuff and we’re all just like, well, they’re perfect and they’re just performing well and nothing think bad ever happens to them.

00:29:09.44
Alex
Because we don’t talk about it.

00:29:10.77
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:29:12.36
Alex
Yeah.

00:29:12.36
Neely Quinn
No, I’ve had to do similar things for sure. And, you know, I’ve gone through, I’ve seen it on an extreme level because I’ve gone through these heinous depressions, like depressive episodes where I would try to climb and I’d be like, nope.

00:29:27.03
Neely Quinn
Absolutely not. And then even with having migraines like seven to 13 times a month, that’s allostatic load. And I’m like, look, I’m uncomfortable almost every day.

00:29:40.95
Neely Quinn
The last thing I want is to also have this severe discomfort in my fingertips and fear. And so it’s the same thing where you’re just like, how much do I want, how much do I want to force myself to suffer?

00:29:46.70
Alex
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:29:55.24
Neely Quinn
And we all have those things that we can list off.

00:29:58.64
Alex
And that it’s constantly changing day to day in our lives and year to year, I feel like.

00:30:01.95
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:30:04.64
Alex
Yeah.

00:30:04.80
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay, cool. So that, anything else you want to say about that?

00:30:09.42
Alex
Nope.

00:30:09.89
Neely Quinn
All right. um My number two is a little bit off topic, but kind of not. So i have I haven’t really talked about this and I’ve really wanted to because it’s basically a lot of what Seth and I talk about now, which is fire. Financial independents retire early, the whole community. I’ve like written blog posts and not published them. um But in November of lot of last year,

00:30:42.49
Neely Quinn
Uh, 2023 Seth and I went to Leonidio and we met these people who are, were 34 and basically retired. And we were like, uh, excuse me. And they were just living in Leonidio. They had a house there and they’re American. And, uh, we were like, we want to be you. And so we just went down the rabbit hole. And if any of you listening have done the same thing, you know, what I’m talking about, like.

00:31:11.87
Neely Quinn
Mr. or Money Mustache, all of the books on Fi. We both read like 10 books, listened to all so many podcast episodes, like how do you save money? Where do you invest your money?

00:31:26.37
Neely Quinn
and how do you like plan so that you can live off of a certain amount of money so that you can live off of your investments for the rest of your life, basically, and do it way sooner than what your normal financial advisor would tell you to do? Because we were on this track where we were like,

00:31:49.10
Neely Quinn
where’re He’s going to work until he’s 65 and we’re going to have this much money in the bank. And that’s how much we in quotes need. And then we realize like, no, we don’t need even remotely that much. And if we get our expenses down, we we yeah definitely don’t need remotely that much. And so we just like cut, we got home from La Nina and just cut all of our expenses. Some of them by like half, some of them by a hundred percent. We just like,

00:32:16.15
Neely Quinn
got rid of all of our streaming services, all of our services basically. we stop I don’t know, we’d started talking about every purchase we made with each other instead of just like being pretty irresponsible with money. Anyway, the purpose of me talking about this on this podcast is that the reason that we want to do this is because we want to be like our friends. We want to be able to like go live in Europe and climb. and And like my husband wants to do woodworking and ah like it pursue different hobbies and have the time to do that. And I think that most climbers, honestly, most people want more freedom and we just think that we can’t. But like even people who aren’t making that much money go fi and they retire early and it’s incredible.

00:33:08.27
Neely Quinn
So if you don’t know about it or if you’ve heard about it and you’re like, that’s just some stupid thing that doesn’t apply to me, I really encourage you to look into it because it’s incredible. And like the progress we’ve seen in this year alone has been mind blowing, like how much we’ve cut out of our budget and then how much the investments have you know grown this year. It’s been like, oh, okay, we can do this and like not in a very long time.

00:33:38.54
Alex
Amazing.

00:33:39.62
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:33:40.56
Alex
Yeah, i I have a question or two from you and also an observation. I’ll start with the observation that we talk a lot, I mean, we’re friends.

00:33:52.37
Alex
um So when you came back, you were all super fired up and at first I was like, oh, this is probably a passing thing and it sounds really stressful.

00:33:57.44
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:33:59.32
Alex
I’m like, I don’t even know.

00:34:00.80
Neely Quinn
Sounds really stressful.

00:34:01.38
Alex
um

00:34:02.98
Neely Quinn
You’re like, she doesn’t even have Netflix anymore.

00:34:04.64
Alex
Yeah, I was like, you weren’t, we would watch it.

00:34:04.90
Neely Quinn
What?

00:34:06.44
Alex
I was like, You’re not even watching reality TV. Who are you? ah so And it just seemed like it was creating stress, but through that stress, you just started to seem so much more calm and relaxed and able to envision yourself climbing and doing things that you want to be doing.

00:34:31.56
Alex
And it seemed like, yeah, it was a month or two of like kind of a high stress time, but you both just really stuck with it. And I see you as being happier now for it.

00:34:43.44
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:45.60
Alex
So that’s my observation.

00:34:47.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And it was it was pretty intense there for a while. We were. Seth was like, well, we need you can’t get cabbage from whole foods. It’s forty nine cents more expensive than Costco.

00:34:59.99
Neely Quinn
And I was like, oh, you know but that’s I think how granular you have to get when you’re because it all adds up.

00:35:02.44
Alex
Yeah.

00:35:08.05
Neely Quinn
So but but we we we definitely don’t um do that anymore.

00:35:12.25
Alex
Well, I think that’s the thing is like, I would get audio messages and be like, how are you? You’re like, I’m going to fight over cabbage.

00:35:17.97
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly.

00:35:18.53
Alex
like Like, we are fighting over cabbage right now.

00:35:22.49
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I think I literally said that to you, yeah.

00:35:24.34
Alex
Yeah. Um, so it’s really cool to see that transition. Okay. And then my question is, is while this sounds amazing and talking about finances and recognizing that finances and managing our finances is a massive, massive, um, it has a massive impact on our performance and our climbing and what we see ourselves doing in climbing, what we want out of our climbing.

00:35:38.69
Neely Quinn
Mhm.

00:35:46.66
Neely Quinn
h

00:35:53.92
Alex
a I it’s a way bigger thing than I would like to think it is. So do you have comments on that?

00:36:01.85
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And I think, okay, so I want to say that most of this, most of my motivation for this was not for me, because if I’m being honest, my life is like my dream life for the most part. I don’t work that much. um And I go on climbing trips whenever I want. And Seth is super supportive of that. So this was, and it’s because he has this really bad-ass job that he has to sit in front of his computer eight to 10 hours a day to do. And um So my motivation for this was for him. And when, before we started this, Seth was miserable at his job. And he, all all he saw was like, this is what I have to do for the rest of my life. I don’t get to climb very much. I don’t, my body hurts a lot because I have to sit at this desk, blah, blah, blah. And so I think it’s, I can speak more on his, because now he sees the light and he’s like happier at his job.

00:36:57.89
Neely Quinn
because you know he can see like, I don’t have to do this forever and I can climb more soon. and um And so I think that that has lightened his load and made him much happier, which then in turn has made me much happier.

00:37:14.80
Alex
That’s awesome.

00:37:15.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:37:15.86
Alex
Yeah, great. Um, thank you for bringing it up. My next question is, I want resources on this. Where, if, yeah if there was like one book or one podcast or one point of entry, what would you recommend?

00:37:30.94
Neely Quinn
Um, there are a lot. So I think that Mr. Money Mustache hits a blog and I think he is like the godfather, one of the god, not the, but he, he’s great because he’s very entertaining too. So he teaches you while he’s entertaining you. But then there are other books and one is Quit Like a Millionaire. And I think that that one you should definitely read if you’re interested in it.

00:37:57.33
Neely Quinn
There are others, I’ll list some other um some other resources in the show notes, but I would start there because that blog will introduce you to all kinds of other things too.

00:38:03.47
Alex
Sweet.

00:38:09.53
Alex
Thank you for bringing that up. I know it’s hard to bring up money.

00:38:12.42
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it is.

00:38:12.54
Alex
It’s like don’t bring up money.

00:38:14.20
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and I want to say like I know that I’m in a very privileged situation. in i don’t That doesn’t ever escape me every day. I’m like, my life is amazing. And so I don’t want to sound like I’m not grateful for what I have and the situation I’m in. OK, so number three for you.

00:38:32.77
Alex
Yeah, so this is kind of… I’m actually gonna change the order around.

00:38:37.92
Neely Quinn
OK.

00:38:38.46
Alex
um My number three is a journey into… my myself, kind of understanding myself more and learning about myself. And through having a mental health crisis in my family, I was like, I need therapy. I’ve known I’ve needed therapy for quite a while, actually. And I just, I would dabble and I’d find a therapist and be like, uh, she’s younger than I am. I don’t, I’m not really interested in this.

00:39:08.83
Alex
um And I ended up getting a consult from a therapist who I really liked and I decided, okay, I’m going to work with this person. I’m going to really dive into me because I don’t want to wait to see if what I’m seeing in my family happens to me down the road. Like I want to be proactive about my mental health. I also feel like I just needed a lot of help processing what was happening in my family circle. So I started working with a therapist I really liked. And through working with this therapist,

00:39:39.78
Alex
she mentioned in a very supportive, curious way. She’s like, have you ever thought that you might not be neurotypical? And I was like, no.

00:39:51.71
Alex
like And I’m 35. I just figured myself out. like I got that badge. like I know myself.

00:39:57.00
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:39:57.29
Alex
And now all of a sudden, she’s like, well, I think we should explore it. And so she started giving me books to read. and um That was helpful. And so, so basically in a roundabout way, it came up. She’s like, I don’t say this likely. I don’t say this lightly and I don’t often like to toss out labels, but I really suspect that you might be a little bit autistic. She didn’t say a little bit. She just said on the spectrum. And we talked about what that meant. I went down that rabbit hole.

00:40:26.06
Alex
And it was brought up that I could never get a diagnosis and just kind of explore what that might mean to me and what changes I can make, what tools I could implement in my life just to manage the stuff I was struggling with a little better. Um, but that there was also a route to get diagnosed. And so kind of like what you said with your hamstring, it’s like, well, I don’t want to not know.

00:40:52.29
Alex
Like if there’s a way of knowing, I want to know. um So I went through this pretty freaking intense diagnostic process. It was like over seven hours, lots of driving to Denver. There’s not a lot of people, places that do ASD testing in adults. And some of the props and things were definitely children’s books. But for the most part, it was it was fine.

00:41:14.42
Alex
um Yeah. And I got those results and they’re like, we definitely think you are on the spectrum and not at a super high level, but it was really helpful to understand like, here are the things that we see that you experience at a higher level. Here’s things we see that you don’t experience at a higher level. And just kind of, I took a deep dive into what neurodiversity and neurotypical is essentially.

00:41:43.16
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:41:43.99
Alex
Yeah, so I think a few of the things that kind of rank high for me is sensory stuff. So one of the things my therapist picked up on, because I was having trouble wanting to eat, um especially as family stuff got stressful, I was not ah was like, basically mostly mechanical eating, which is like, I know I need these nutrients, so I’m going to eat them. um But she picked up on that a big part of why I wasn’t wanting to eat stuff is I’m really sensitive to texture.

00:42:12.53
Alex
ah And I didn’t actually recognize that, and I talked to my mom about it. She’s like, yeah, you’ve been that way since you were a baby. When you put peas in your mouth, you would throw them up immediately. like Like anything you didn’t like immediate, like no, and you wouldn’t eat again for for a few hours.

00:42:26.08
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:42:28.05
Alex
So textures. And when I started understanding that it helped me realize too, how to better manage that and eat better. And I started having a better relationship with my food because of that, which was helpful.

00:42:40.55
Alex
um Repetitive behavior. So if anybody listening has been like, how does Alex get on a climb a hundred times and seem happy about it? It’s actually kind of.

00:42:52.35
Alex
because my brain works that way. Like I find great, great comfort in doing the same thing over and over and over again.

00:42:59.05
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:43:01.38
Alex
Which helped me with my clients too. Because instead of looking through the lens of like, well, you just need a project more and why aren’t you getting on your client more than 20 times? Don’t you love it?

00:43:11.11
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:43:11.40
Alex
I could actually be like, oh, you might not actually. It’s different.

00:43:16.37
Neely Quinn
Okay, i I just want to say that that actually makes me feel better about myself because, yeah, like I use, you know, I think of you as inspiration often.

00:43:17.82
Alex
Yes. so

00:43:24.50
Alex
I want, yeah.

00:43:30.17
Neely Quinn
And I’m like, well, Alex can do this. And I’m like, I’m so bored.

00:43:35.67
Alex
Yeah, I love it. um And I find it to be very comfortable. And I find new situations to be very uncomfortable.

00:43:43.81
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:43:44.75
Alex
So like, when somebody’s like, what do you want to do for fun climbing today? Getting on a new route is never on that list. Like that’s always the hardest thing for me to do. Doing the same thing I do all the time is very easy for me.

00:43:58.28
Alex
So I also rank pretty high in routines and rigidity, essentially, where I’m like, I love routines. I love ah doing, yeah, having patterns, having familiar things.

00:44:05.44
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:44:11.14
Alex
And when I get off of those, I could find it really challenging. And it just takes more out of me, essentially.

00:44:19.65
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that makes so much sense for you. Okay, so first of all, thank you so much for talking about this. I think that like watching you go through this has been, because I remember you and I, before that, we were like, wait, should we look into autism?

00:44:37.68
Neely Quinn
like are we We were both like, are we autistic?

00:44:38.21
Alex
Yeah.

00:44:41.01
Alex
yeah

00:44:41.01
Neely Quinn
And um and then watching you go through this, it’s just been,

00:44:41.72
Alex
Yeah.

00:44:45.88
Neely Quinn
super interesting and educational, obviously for you so much, but ah also for me where I’m like, oh, i can I can look at other people now and be like, yeah is what maybe is what’s going on and and it helps me give people more grace. um And hopefully people hearing you talk about this, I can’t imagine that people are nobody’s going to Well, if people judge you for it, that’s weird. But um I think that it’s mostly just really good awareness and validation for people probably listening where they’re like, oh, maybe I should get tested or look into this more. Because basically, like, what has it done for you?

00:45:26.74
Alex
Yeah, that’s a great question. um It’s really…

00:45:32.91
Alex
kind of deflated shame I didn’t even know I had in so many ways.

00:45:35.85
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:45:37.26
Alex
like There was so much shame I carried in around like, why don’t I show up for friends and family like I think I should? Why, if I’m psyched on skateboarding, will I cancel all engagements to hang out with people and be absolutely 100% happy doing this instead?

00:45:53.41
Alex
um Or not showing up for family or various things or finding holiday travels to be absolutely the worst thing on the planet. um So there was a lot of shame in just how I was interacting sometimes or how I was choosing to live my life versus what I thought I should be doing. And I just got a whole bunch of understanding for that. And I was like, Oh, this is just me. And it gave me permission to start making changes boundaries and having conversations with the people in my life around what my needs were.

00:46:31.17
Alex
And through this process, cause I was like, well, I’m getting diagnosed, but what if it’s, what if I’m not? I decided, I was like, it doesn’t matter. I could still have these conversations with, with people and I could still make these changes in my life to support myself better. So I would say it’s more about understanding and adding like validity to how you want to live and what You struggle with what you don’t struggle with, what brings you joy, kind of what understanding yourself more and what that means and what you could do to support yourself with who you are.

00:47:09.33
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:47:14.43
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And I know that you’ve had conversations with your family about this, like all of your parents. And I imagine that it’s given them some better understanding of like your relationship with them.

00:47:21.63
Alex
Yeah.

00:47:28.30
Alex
Absolutely. Like I had one of the most positive parental interactions I’ve had in ages. Um, and I just had an ability to just kind of stand up for what I needed a little more to.

00:47:39.23
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:47:41.41
Alex
Yeah. And I don’t actually know how it shows up in my climbing and I’m really, really curious to continue exploring that. I mentioned one way that I know for sure.

00:47:52.73
Alex
I love getting on the same c climb over and over and over and over and over again. um I also know and realize like there’s things I could do at the crag that just makes me more happy and feel less strained too. I love puzzles. I love Sudoku’s. I love things like that. And if I have a Sudoku in my pack at all times, I’m a happier person. um And if I just give myself time to go sit on a rock and do that,

00:48:21.91
Alex
instead of like engaging, I have more energy to get on my climb multiple times.

00:48:24.31
Neely Quinn
With people, yeah.

00:48:28.67
Neely Quinn
I mean, that’s huge. And and it’s is that because that’s also like this repetitive thing that you can do?

00:48:34.06
Alex
Yeah, absolutely.

00:48:35.58
Neely Quinn
And it’s not in like engagement is very energy, ah like requires a lot of energy for you.

00:48:42.27
Alex
Yeah, and like if I feel like I need a recharge, I’m no longer shaming myself about needing to play eight to 10 hours of chess in one day. ah And through working with the therapist, it was really nice because they’d be like, so how do you feel after you spend eight to 10 hours a day doing something like that? Because I was talking about it as if it was bad.

00:49:05.03
Alex
I was like, well, my wrist sometimes hurts. She’s like, yeah, but how do you feel? it I’m like, I feel great. I love it more than anything. Like that’s, that’s some of my favorite days. She’s like, okay. So, so it’s just, yeah, interesting and helpful and validating. And honestly,

00:49:24.65
Alex
I feel like. In sports in general and in climbers, I probably know so, so, so many people who are not neurotypical.

00:49:27.64
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:49:33.91
Neely Quinn
Right. Yeah.

00:49:34.92
Alex
And um and I love that. Like it’s one of the things I love most about climbing. And it’s one of the things I feel most connected to in my community is that I found a community of people who experience life in a certain way and we can all kind of connect via that.

00:49:57.49
Alex
Yeah.

00:49:58.68
Neely Quinn
well I’m really happy for you and you definitely this year have come into your power more. Like you’re setting boundaries. You’re very clear in your communication. You know yourself a lot better. Like the way that you handled your family situation was just like so powerful. And so thank you for sharing and I’m really happy for you. And I know that it’s not done. Like I know that you’re still learning a lot about it.

00:50:29.65
Alex
which has just been really fun. Like when I first, when the therapist first brought it up, I like went to the couch and basically had a breakdown with my dog. I was like so mad. I was like, how could you be, how dare you bring up this? And so it’s just been really fun to actually go down that route and experience some of those feelings and explore them more.

00:50:55.08
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. I’m looking forward to hearing more about what you discover about it in your climbing. I mean, in life too, but yeah.

00:51:04.33
Alex
And I think there’s lots and lots and lots of women out there, especially who have not been diagnosed or been misdiagnosed. It’s just so many of these neurodiverse things like OCD, ADHD, ASD, all like, etc. They present differently in women and they’re starting to really figure that out now. And I think.

00:51:28.32
Alex
It’s just kind of a cool time as we’re starting to understand more about mental diversity stuff.

00:51:35.55
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and de-stigmatize it too.

00:51:37.50
Alex
Yeah. And that’s why I wanted to bring it up is because I think it should just be a little more normalized.

00:51:38.30
Neely Quinn
Yeah. which Yeah.

00:51:42.83
Alex
So I wouldn’t have to like, go have a breakdown on the couch about like, well, what does this mean for me?

00:51:46.88
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:51:47.83
Alex
Oh my gosh. Like, I was like, I feel that way because it’s been so stigmatized in my life.

00:51:53.80
Neely Quinn
Yes, exactly. Well, you’re doing the work to destigmatize it now. So yeah.

00:51:59.14
Alex
Thanks, tryin’.

00:52:00.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. Anything else you want to say about that?

00:52:03.66
Alex
Nope.

00:52:04.32
Neely Quinn
Okay. All right. My, uh, let’s see. I’m also gonna switch my order. ah My next one, the one thing that I learned in 2024 is about age. So in 2024, I turned 46 years old. And up until then, I was kind of like,

00:52:28.90
Neely Quinn
you know, when you’re in your early 40s, you can still kind of fudge being like, I’m still young, or I can. And then once I got into my mid to late 40s, I was like,

00:52:44.61
Neely Quinn
Okay, I have to have sort of a reckoning about this because I also haven’t talked about this that much and I’ve wanted to, but I don’t know exactly how to say it, but like I am 100% against using your age as an excuse.

00:53:05.32
Neely Quinn
I’ve always ignored my age in that I know that socially, like societally, I am old for an athlete. And there have been times when I’m like, my family probably thinks I’m crazy that I’m still like avidly pursuing this sport in my late 40s.

00:53:28.02
Neely Quinn
And I’ve had to have reckonings with that where I’m like, what but would I rather be avidly, passionately ah ah pursuing something that gets me moving or doing what everybody else my age is doing? Not everybody, but most other people, which is like stagnating and and dying, basically.

00:53:47.95
Neely Quinn
the of Of course, I would pick the first one. So i’ve like that’s that’s no longer a part of my consciousness, like worrying about what other people think. but But I do at the crag here all the time, all every time I’m out. Well,

00:54:02.25
Neely Quinn
I’m too old for this in some manner or in another. Like, well, I just don’t have much power anymore because I’m 40. Or um I’m injured because I’m 32. Or we’re just getting old. like the ma The amount of times I’ve heard people say, well, we’re not getting any younger. Or like i’ll so I’ll tell somebody that I have this injury. And they’re like, well, I mean, that’s just what happens when you get older.

00:54:25.54
Neely Quinn
And I think that’s utter bullshit. I just think it’s utter bullshit. And um like I could go on and on about this because the the reason that I know that is that I’ve been getting injured since the day I started climbing.

00:54:41.06
Neely Quinn
so We’re just in a sport that is high impact. it’s It’s really intense. And that’s what happens when you use your body in this way. You just get injured. The people who don’t get injured are anomalies. So I believe strongly that if you take care of yourself and you do all the things and you decrease as much stress as you can, you sleep well, you drink water, you eat well, and do you change your diet as you age and you train it properly and you don’t overtrain. like

00:55:13.01
Neely Quinn
you can be good for many, many decades. And however, this year I had one moment where I was talking to some people and I was like, well, I’m not going to climb. They were talking about the red and they were like, how many days are you going to climb? And I was like, well, I’m not going to climb too many days in a row. I am 46 years old. And I was like, oh my gosh, where did that come? Who is that person?

00:55:40.22
Neely Quinn
And it kind of freaked me out because I was like, oh, am I succumbing to this? And so I made this pact with myself. like I will never say anything like that again. I don’t care how old I am. I don’t care if I’m 85 years old trying to climb 5’10”. I’m never going to use my age as an excuse. It’s just not something I would do. And I don’t think that any of us should. like I think it’s lazy. I think it’s it’s like poorly informed.

00:56:08.32
Neely Quinn
I think that all of us have really great role models now for like older climbers, older athletes of all kinds who have taken good care of themselves. And you might say to yourself, Oh, it’s just their genetics. And sometimes it is, but a lot of times it’s that they’ve put the intention in and they’ve like fostered this mindset. That’s like, no, I’m not going to let this hold me back because I love it. And I mean, I can say that, I mean, you have climbed with me recently. I feel legit stronger than I’ve ever felt.

00:56:37.87
Alex
Climbing stronger than I’ve ever seen you climb.

00:56:39.43
Neely Quinn
more confident, stronger, more powerful. And so I just think that it’s like, I’ve thought about this a lot over the years, but this year was like this turning point where I was like, I could legit say to myself now, you’re too old for this. yeah This is why this is happening because of your age. And and there was just this moment where I was like, no, I’m never going there.

00:57:03.83
Alex
I love that so much. And one thing that came up for me is every statement that is about age has the power to impact anybody around us.

00:57:15.33
Neely Quinn
Yes!

00:57:16.86
Alex
And so I really, really like just having a rule that says, don’t even go there. Don’t say it. Don’t like, don’t put that out there to become somebody else’s barrier or something that they now have to overcome.

00:57:32.42
Alex
to live out their dreams or goals and for yourself.

00:57:35.88
Neely Quinn
Yes. Yes. Because I mean, I have these clients who are 33 years old and they’re like, well, the clock is ticking and I don’t have that much time left to climb hard. And I’m like, well, if you don’t, then

00:57:51.53
Alex
Yeah, and then you have to overcome that.

00:57:52.24
Neely Quinn
And it’s, yeah, and they and they’re saying it because somebody said it to them about themselves. And so yeah, we’re all putting these limiting beliefs on ourselves and each other.

00:57:58.66
Alex
Yeah.

00:58:03.21
Neely Quinn
It’s like I interviewed my friend Ashley Hardy, and she was like, I don’t like talking about bad conditions out loud because I don’t want it to affect anybody around me.

00:58:14.05
Neely Quinn
And I don’t want anybody around me talking about bad conditions because I don’t want that to affect my consciousness.

00:58:19.94
Alex
brilliant Yeah.

00:58:20.60
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s the same exact thing. So like if you’re injured, just do something about it. like If you’re gaining weight, it’s not because you’re old. It’s because you’re not eating well.

00:58:31.06
Alex
Yeah. yeah

00:58:33.96
Neely Quinn
It’s because you’re not listening to your body and your metabolism. like Do something about it. And don’t use this as an excuse. So that is my high horse, and I will come off of it now.

00:58:44.36
Alex
Yeah. I love it. Great job stepping onto that horse. I think it’s needed. I think it’s really helpful for me. It’s really helpful for anybody and everybody.

00:58:56.18
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And I mean, you’re seeing it with your partner too. How old did he just turn?

00:59:01.51
Neely Quinn
Can I not say that?

00:59:01.75
Alex
yeah No, you, you absolutely can. I believe 43, but I’m there, but I don’t know how old I am.

00:59:06.42
Neely Quinn
You’re like, I don’t know.

00:59:09.39
Alex
So better than ever.

00:59:10.53
Neely Quinn
But, and also like Luke is climbing better than ever. Like far better than ever.

00:59:14.91
Alex
Um,

00:59:16.54
Neely Quinn
It’s incredible what he’s doing.

00:59:17.06
Alex
Yeah, it is incredible.

00:59:18.85
Neely Quinn
Yeah. He’s like done basically every 14 plus in rifle. Now you just sent the red, but anyway.

00:59:23.13
Alex
It’s an incredible. Yeah.

00:59:26.31
Neely Quinn
Okay, moving on. Number four for you.

00:59:31.13
Alex
Okay. Number four for me. Um, I actually learned how to find my own beta. And I feel weird saying this because you would think as somebody who’s not quite five feet tall and, um,

00:59:47.57
Alex
It’s just not quite a normal body type that I would have to do that all the time, but I actually haven’t. I’m really, really good about asking farming and getting other people to tell me how to do stuff. And then I can do it. Um, and I’ve actually found my own beta very few times on a climb that’s challenging for me.

01:00:14.17
Alex
And on Magnetar, the lady who was working on it is notoriously known for never remembering her beta, which is amazing because I’d be like, what did you do there?

01:00:29.00
Alex
And she legitimately couldn’t tell me what she did. And so it it was incredible because I just knew she did it.

01:00:34.24
Neely Quinn
but That’s funny.

01:00:38.18
Alex
But I didn’t know exactly how she did it. or And the way I would see her do it without it explained, I’d just be like, I can’t figure this out. I have to figure out something different. And there were a couple of sections where I just knew I had to have different beta than the traditional beta. um Otherwise, the root would never go. I was like, there’s no way this move is going to happen the way it is. I have to find something different.

01:01:01.68
Alex
And because I was in a state of being playful and having fun and not pushing myself being uncomfortable, it lent itself more to feeling less pressure to like figure something out right away.

01:01:17.55
Alex
I was more open to just going up there and feeling around for 15 minutes, 20 minutes on a go and just, and then coming down after that and just trying to find something.

01:01:28.61
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:01:28.96
Alex
Um, so I found my own beta in three different spots on this route. And one of them is in a place where I was like, is there any knee bar?

01:01:40.97
Alex
And two knee bar magicians were like, no. And I found a knee scum, and I was so proud. Yeah, and it was like, this is amazing. Now I could do the move without wrecking my shoulders.

01:01:52.05
Neely Quinn
Nice.

01:01:52.77
Alex
um You’ve actually been one of the main people who’ve given me beta in the past, like on Tomb Raider and other things. um And surprisingly, I’ve been able to take beta from people who are very different body types and sizes for me, and then all adjust it to me.

01:02:10.96
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

01:02:13.42
Alex
But actually finding my own beta was new and exciting. And there were a couple of things that I have as tips.

01:02:20.20
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:02:20.35
Alex
And then I really want to ask you how you do it. Cause I feel like you’re the master. So my tips one is realize that it might take time and it might take multiple attempts up something.

01:02:31.98
Alex
And you just have to sit there and be really curious about like, this is a puzzle. I need to try and figure out this puzzle. There is an answer and you just have to like. be there for that process. Next up is I always ask myself what hand am I trying to move? And then I look for something for that side of my lower body. So like on the move, I talked about it. It’s like, I need to move my right hand. So almost always, I feel like the answer is in your right foot, right leg, right something.

01:03:05.60
Alex
And that really guided me in where I needed to look.

01:03:07.50
Neely Quinn
Mm.

01:03:09.40
Alex
My third tip is I would often get into the finished position and just hold it and see what I could do with my lower body, where it can reach, what holds were available.

01:03:20.25
Alex
So I would like climb into the move or assist myself into the finished position of the move and just see what actually was available to me and where it felt good to pit my lower body.

01:03:32.61
Alex
So holding isometrics in the finished position.

01:03:35.12
Neely Quinn
Wow.

01:03:35.39
Alex
That was my three.

01:03:36.49
Neely Quinn
Oh my gosh. Of course you came up with a systematic way to find your own beta. That’s amazing.

01:03:41.79
Alex
Thanks.

01:03:41.99
Neely Quinn
This is why you’re such a good coach.

01:03:42.51
Alex
That’s what I do.

01:03:43.89
Neely Quinn
It’s exactly what you do.

01:03:44.70
Alex
That’s how my brain works.

01:03:47.16
Neely Quinn
I’m like, I don’t know.

01:03:47.26
Alex
but

01:03:47.84
Neely Quinn
I just sit up there for a while and feel around.

01:03:48.55
Alex
yeah

01:03:53.20
Neely Quinn
Yeah, those are great tips. I want to um highlight the first tip, which is that you, and I heard you say earlier, I went up there and for 15 or 20 minutes, you would just mess around on probably like one or two bolt lengths, right?

01:04:09.37
Alex
one, like one move.

01:04:10.10
Neely Quinn
One, right.

01:04:11.04
Alex
Yeah.

01:04:11.19
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Even better. And I don’t think that people think that that’s something that they a are allowed to do B should do C. They just don’t even think about it as an option, but for sure on climbs, I have, you know, pulled on draws to get up to a certain point and just worked on a crux for me, even if it’s not the crux for everybody else.

01:04:34.93
Neely Quinn
And so, um, ah giving people permission to do that, I think is great. So those are wonderful tips good job I think that um from a really from the beginning of my climbing I

01:04:43.42
Alex
Thank you. So how do you find your own beta? How did you become so good at it?

01:04:57.75
Neely Quinn
I’ve always been able to pull on tiny crimps. And so it started with that where I’d be like, even in Kalimnos this year, I was on-siting this thing and and i I just like put my hand up. I couldn’t i couldn’t get past this part and I put my hand up and just felt around and was like, that is the smallest crimp and no chalk on it. Nobody’s ever used this before. And I was like, I can definitely pull on this. And so like just growing the confidence to pull on really tiny things because you have to when you’re small, short.

01:05:31.72
Neely Quinn
um So it just is pulling on small crimps.

01:05:32.94
Alex
I’m going to challenge you there. I don’t do that and I’m really short and it’s one of my biggest weaknesses, but you are. Yeah, you’re amazing.

01:05:44.48
Neely Quinn
Well, thanks. um Yeah.

01:05:46.68
Alex
I think it’s cause you’ve developed that skill since you started climbing.

01:05:50.27
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I mean, I think that when you’re desperate for a hold, you’ll just use anything. And so I’ve just allowed myself to use anything. And that, I think, comes in really handy with on-siting, which I know isn’t something that you do very often, right?

01:06:03.61
Alex
Mm hmm.

01:06:04.55
Neely Quinn
um Because of what we just talked about, new things are not. But i as in my personality, I love newness. And so I’m going to go to Kalimnos and Leonidio and climb as many things as I possibly can, because I love newness.

01:06:18.73
Neely Quinn
Um, also an Enneagram, like I have a lot of seven in me. So if anybody is interested in that, but, um, so yeah, when you’re on the go and you’re desperate for something, you just can’t, you just use whatever. So it’s that, but also I think that what you just said, like giving yourself time. I have done that because Seth has always encouraged it. He’s like, sit there and figure it out. And I’m fine down here, you know? So having the permission to do that was always helpful.

01:06:49.05
Alex
ah So I’m going to take away some things from that. The first is, is that, which I thought I think is really cool is you’ve actually developed your beta ability by on-siting with the intention of just like, because here’s the thing. I think a lot of people on-site with the, the moment it gets hard, I’m going to take.

01:07:13.65
Alex
mentality, but you don’t actually, when you get on something like that, you’re very much like, I’ve seen this in you. You fight to figure out the puzzle. It’s like you are on siding because you want to be challenged to figure out moves while you’re climbing.

01:07:25.47
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:07:27.86
Alex
And so you have that mindset to begin with. Like I want to figure out movement for myself.

01:07:34.99
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:07:35.33
Alex
So I think that’s number one is you actually have a desire to be doing that and have spent a lot of time doing that.

01:07:40.21
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:07:43.45
Alex
where I’m like, I don’t want to figure out anything for myself. Even if I’m on sighting, I’m like, is there anybody here who could spray me on this?

01:07:51.84
Neely Quinn
really Is anybody here that can give me beta so that this can feel like a routine to me, please?

01:07:56.62
Alex
Yes, please.

01:07:57.99
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s really funny.

01:08:03.09
Alex
And then you developed a confidence in using bad holds or even attempting to use bad holds. Like you’re not afraid to just grab something and see if it will work.

01:08:13.03
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and i think i’ve gotten I think it’s probably also that I’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback about that. you know Guys will be like, bro, how did you use that hold? And I’m like, fuck yeah, I did use that hold.

01:08:24.34
Alex
Really not just guys I’ve done that to you nearly how did you use that?

01:08:24.41
Neely Quinn
So you’re like, yeah, you have.

01:08:29.27
Alex
all

01:08:31.77
Alex
um

01:08:31.87
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So you get, you’re like, yeah, I’m going to show people that it’s okay to not use the standard beta. And also like, if it’s harder than what they’re doing. Great. Whatever.

01:08:44.81
Alex
Yeah. Um, how often do you like, if you’re in the gym and you’re about to get on something, how often do you ask the community about what you’re going to do?

01:08:55.08
Neely Quinn
What do you mean?

01:08:56.12
Alex
Like almost always.

01:08:56.78
Neely Quinn
Like beta.

01:08:58.09
Alex
Yeah. Like even if I’m about to onsite something, I’ll try and have Luke do it first.

01:09:02.52
Neely Quinn
Oh, it just doesn’t ever work for me.

01:09:05.44
Alex
I don’t think it does. And I think that’s a big reason you’re so much better at it than I am.

01:09:09.80
Neely Quinn
If I’m in the gym, I don’t think I ever, I don’t think I ever ask.

01:09:15.17
Alex
Yeah, exactly. And I, I can’t remember the last time I didn’t ask before getting on something that was hard for me.

01:09:18.82
Neely Quinn
Huh. Well, I mean, what does that say to you? Yeah. I mean, did you want to change that?

01:09:22.49
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. It’s really cool. Yes. Like I want to be better. Like it was so gratifying to figure out my own beta on this climb.

01:09:31.28
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

01:09:33.05
Alex
Yeah.

01:09:34.37
Neely Quinn
You’re just kind of having your own experience up there.

01:09:37.06
Alex
And that was a big hard thing for me. Projecting Omaha was you’re so high up. You can’t just ask anybody.

01:09:43.84
Neely Quinn
Yeah. They’re like, I don’t know. I can’t even see you.

01:09:45.81
Alex
You can’t hear, you can’t see, like like it all looks the same and I was like, shit, I can’t just ask for beta here.

01:09:49.50
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:09:54.25
Alex
um

01:09:55.21
Neely Quinn
Yeah. You’re basically ah kind of disempowering yourself in that very specific way.

01:10:00.39
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. So that was my whatever number that was four.

01:10:05.16
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Number four. Yeah. Apparently we’re going to go for a while here, but, um, maybe we’ll try to do these other ones more quickly. But anyway, good job making progress on that.

01:10:16.61
Neely Quinn
That’s really exciting. Like opens a lot of doors for you.

01:10:19.85
Alex
Thank you.

01:10:20.54
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. My next one is, uh, well, I can’t decide. I want to just say really quickly that I can project hard things without freaking out. Like I did this route this year and it took me 10 tries. I wrote a whole blog post about it and the contrast between that 13B and a another 13B that I did where I tossed wobblers like years ago was really stark and I just was like really proud of myself for

01:10:54.50
Neely Quinn
keeping my head in check, enjoying every minute of the process, not having expectations of myself while also still having goals. So I just learned that that’s possible, which is why I was ready to go to the red and be like, okay, I’m going to try something even harder, which was fun.

01:11:10.87
Neely Quinn
So that’s yeah.

01:11:11.00
Alex
Can I say that you’re a completely different person to climb around now?

01:11:15.72
Neely Quinn
Uh,

01:11:15.93
Alex
Like it’s so cool. Like you’re just so unflappable. You stay positive. You handle emotion and discomfort.

01:11:25.96
Alex
You handle all the things just differently than you used to. It’s really inspiring.

01:11:30.77
Neely Quinn
Well, thank you. I mean, that’s super validating to hear. Is there anything specific, like just for my own knowledge, is there anything specific that stands out to you?

01:11:40.92
Alex
Sure. I don’t like, if something doesn’t go the way you want it to, I no longer feel like I need to go somewhere else when you come down.

01:11:53.30
Neely Quinn
Wow.

01:11:53.97
Alex
Because I don’t know how to handle it. I’m like, oh, there’s, there’s stuff there and that makes me uncomfortable. So I’ll just go over here. Um.

01:12:01.02
Neely Quinn
Like before, because I would sulk and complain.

01:12:04.84
Alex
Yeah. Like I just didn’t, I was like, Oh, she’ll be upset and I don’t, I won’t know what to do or how to handle this. I’ll just go somewhere else. And now I’m like, I don’t feel that way because you’re not that way. Um, like you went in deep and you rewired so much about yourself. And I think what really stands out to me is it doesn’t seem like your self-worth is affected anymore.

01:12:28.52
Alex
Like when you fall on a project or you don’t get a new high point or something, it’s like you stay really positive, objective, curious, and it doesn’t immediately mean that you suck as a person.

01:12:41.57
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s interesting.

01:12:43.26
Alex
It’s so cool.

01:12:44.64
Neely Quinn
but Well, that’s great. It’s interesting because I don’t, I don’t actually want people to think that I’ve like completely transformed myself. It’s more the way that I manage it because there, when I do fall, there are times when I’m like, I suck.

01:13:00.98
Neely Quinn
And then i the difference now is that I see it. I’m like, whoa, whoa, that’s not how we want to be. and i Yeah, because it’s not that it’s not there.

01:13:08.80
Alex
That’s such a good clarification.

01:13:12.14
Neely Quinn
And I think that people are looking for a magic key that’s going to be like, you no longer feel these things. But I do. It’s in my DNA to feel those things.

01:13:24.21
Neely Quinn
And now I can just be like, This is a rock climb. I’m doing the best that I can. And what can I learn from that fall? but So like I have to, I have to.

01:13:33.72
Alex
And you actually do it though.

01:13:35.56
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:13:35.89
Alex
Like it’s one thing knowing you should do it, but you’ve actually learned how to do it. And I think you’re really good at teaching people how to do it and encouraging others and helping them get there too.

01:13:45.01
Neely Quinn
Well, thanks.

01:13:45.53
Alex
So I think it’s huge.

01:13:46.25
Neely Quinn
I appreciate that.

01:13:49.14
Neely Quinn
Yeah. It’s like totally transformed my relationship with climbing.

01:13:52.56
Alex
And probably with climbing partners and all the things.

01:13:56.91
Neely Quinn
Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. OK, so that was I do, if we have time, want to go over ah one more because I think it’s important. But what’s your number five?

01:14:12.67
Alex
Um, I definitely want to hear your last one and I feel like people could just pause and resume the podcast if it’s too long for them.

01:14:18.90
Neely Quinn
OK.

01:14:19.85
Alex
So, uh, my number five is that I learned a lot about how to get on routes that feel too hard for you at that in the moment or maybe too hard ever and how to stay positive and get really good feedback from doing that.

01:14:39.90
Alex
And also why to do that.

01:14:42.16
Neely Quinn
Why to get on routes that are too hard for you at the moment?

01:14:45.43
Alex
Yeah, yeah.

01:14:46.18
Neely Quinn
okay

01:14:47.49
Alex
Um, and some disclaimers in and around that process too. So this year, I’ve really been in a place where I did my big life project and I felt a little aimless.

01:15:03.82
Alex
Like, well, what do I want out of my climbing now?

01:15:05.94
Neely Quinn
After you yeah you did Homunculus 14a, yeah.

01:15:08.21
Alex
Yeah, I was like, do I want to climb that hard again? Do I want to get faster at climbing easier stuff? Do I want to climb harder things? Like I just didn’t know the answer to that. Um, and it felt pretty organic to just start getting on dream climbs, not with the idea of starting to project them, but just.

01:15:30.16
Alex
as a vision quest, like what would it, what does this climb feel like? What would it look like for me? What version of me would I need to be to send this? And I got on lots of climbs that fit that category for me. And um thank goodness for my WIMP stick because that also, that enabled me to do it in a timely, efficient manner. um So like it is a great tool for something like that. It also meant that I wasn’t,

01:15:59.15
Alex
getting on these climbs, epicking and taking away from other people’s ability to climb on them. Like I think you have to be respectful. All of us have to be respectful of our environment, right? That just goes without being said. But I would just get on the climbs and ask myself, what would I need to be able to do this climb that I don’t currently have? And I just started making a list of the things that were coming up.

01:16:26.29
Alex
And kind of a no surprise for me that I was annoyed to feel was it wasn’t as much about moves as it was about willingness to fall and willingness to just push through like challenging moves above bolts.

01:16:38.49
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:16:45.73
Alex
Like that kept coming up a lot. The other thing that really came up for me was my max move limit has gotten a little lower than it’s been in previous years.

01:16:53.27
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:16:54.41
Alex
And also it just feels a little too low for some of these climbs. Like I could do these moves, but they feel max. So if I want a good chance of sending this route, I think I need to bolder a little more essentially, or get this particular movement a little better.

01:17:10.55
Neely Quinn
which has always worked for you in the past.

01:17:12.79
Alex
Yeah, I think that’s a really important thing for me and just through getting on long, more endurance based sport climbs. I’ve lost that a little bit. Um, so focusing on that, the other thing was asking myself how much time do I think it would take to send something? And a lot of these things I was like, I can imagine sending it in 50 to a hundred attempts.

01:17:40.18
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:17:41.31
Alex
But when am I going to have that opportunity if the climb is like on the other side of the country?

01:17:45.35
Neely Quinn
At home.

01:17:47.91
Alex
Or the seasons are what they are? like like There’s nothing out my back door that I’m like, yeah, I want to go spend 50 to 100 temps on that. It’s climbs that are like in rifle or in the Red River Gorge.

01:17:58.62
Alex
um So I started asking myself, what do I think it would take to be able to send something like this in 20 temps? And just asking these hypothetical questions to come up with answers.

01:18:09.45
Alex
and I really enjoyed that and I really learned a lot about that and it’s really informed how I’m training now and what actions I wanted to take.

01:18:19.83
Neely Quinn
Okay. So when you said I learned about how to stay positive on basically like above my max roots.

01:18:28.84
Alex
Cause the expectation was never to get on this because I want to send the season.

01:18:32.48
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

01:18:33.66
Alex
It was, I’m getting on this to be really curious and I would often like kind of have a timer in my head. I have 40 minutes. i’m I’m not like, there were zero expectations when I got on these climbs. It was purely just a practice and being curious.

01:18:52.20
Neely Quinn
Because in the distance of your mind, you’re like, I would like to send this thing someday.

01:18:58.44
Alex
Yeah, like this is a path I’m really considering taking.

01:19:02.18
Neely Quinn
who

01:19:02.65
Alex
And I think through this year I decided I do really want to see what happens if I try my best and my smartest to be able to do these dream climbs in under 20 attempts.

01:19:13.85
Neely Quinn
Right. Yeah. You said to me that you were like, maybe I would like to do more than one thing a year. That’s hard for me.

01:19:19.80
Alex
Yeah. So I kind of decided through this process is like, yeah, I don’t think I want to be pursuing 14 plus right now or harder like sport climbs. I want to be able to do 14.

01:19:31.82
Alex
in under five years.

01:19:37.66
Alex
Actually, though, in like two or two to four hard things per season instead of just one.

01:19:44.73
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I mean, that’s a huge change, honestly.

01:19:48.19
Alex
Yeah.

01:19:49.32
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So basically you went up this, you’re like, what you, it seems like you just looked at it very systematically, objectively, like, what do I need to do to make this happen in my training, in my preparation?

01:19:58.85
Alex
Yeah.

01:20:01.80
Alex
And I think so many of us and what I’ve done for many years is I fantasize about what it would be like. Like we’re creating a picture of what we think that would be like for us.

01:20:14.81
Alex
But we don’t actually confirm it. We don’t actually get a reality of what it would be like.

01:20:19.62
Neely Quinn
What do you mean?

01:20:19.85
Alex
So it’s. So we often think like, Oh, I can’t do moves hard enough to get on that climb. Like, or that’s my dream climb, but I don’t climb hard enough yet.

01:20:30.78
Neely Quinn
so

01:20:31.08
Alex
And I realized that I do climb hard enough. I just.

01:20:35.54
Alex
My head needs some work. Like like my, i like I need to really be taking a lot of fall practice if I want to be getting on these harder things because doing moves that feel that hard for me above a bowl is very different than doing moves that don’t feel that hard for me above a bowl.

01:20:50.81
Neely Quinn
Mmhmm.

01:20:50.99
Alex
It’s not that I’m not used to climbing above bolts. It’s like. What the moves are above the bolts that’s that I realized was challenging um It just cleared up the picture.

01:20:55.98
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:21:00.37
Alex
It takes out the unknown It’s like I’ve been on there. I’ve done I’ve touched every single hold on this climb. I no longer am imagining something and Then filling in blanks or excuses or training for something.

01:21:06.77
Neely Quinn
Mmhmm.

01:21:13.34
Alex
That’s an imaginary thing. It’s like now I know this is what it feels like and

01:21:18.02
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you just basically confronted reality in a really objective way.

01:21:22.66
Alex
Yeah. And I think I just want to point out that I think we often create our own reality about our sports goals and we could actually just go see what it feels like.

01:21:28.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Mm-hmm. I want to tell the audience ah something that you told me that helped me, which is along these same lines. So before I went to the red, um you knew what route I was going to get on. You guided me wonderfully with it. ah And you were like, look, just go there and give yourself ah six tries on it.

01:22:01.30
Neely Quinn
Like, whether it’s uncomfortable or the only reason that you will not do those six tries is if it’s painful in some way. And I was like, that’s a really good, and it’s kind of like you saying, I’m going to, I give myself 40 minutes up there.

01:22:17.41
Neely Quinn
You know, you have like, you’re not just going to bang your head against the wall on this thing. But I think that that guideline for me was really helpful. And then when I was working, I fell in love with the route. But then when I was working on it, you also gave me great advice because you were like, well, if you can’t do these certain moves on it, just skip those moves and work on the top. neely And I was like, that’s brilliant.

01:22:45.93
Neely Quinn
And I never would have given myself permission to do that. And it’s the same thing when you’re even on Omaha, you know, you could have just been like, I’m just going to and I think you did.

01:22:56.13
Neely Quinn
I’m just going to try to work on this part of it today.

01:22:58.81
Alex
Mm-hmm.

01:22:59.14
Neely Quinn
You know, so it’s just like red pointing tactics and projecting tactics.

01:23:01.68
Alex
And how many times do you think I got on OMA?

01:23:05.54
Neely Quinn
I think you told me, but I mean, was it like six?

01:23:08.56
Alex
Six.

01:23:08.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:23:09.61
Alex
Because I was like, just get on it six times.

01:23:11.85
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:23:12.19
Alex
And unfortunately, it turned out to be six days of climbing, because it was so physically demanding for me. that it But like it was one attempt per day, and um there’s a line and stuff.

01:23:20.73
Neely Quinn
And there’s a line on it. and

01:23:23.79
Alex
And I’m so happy with every single one of those six attempts. And then after six attempts, I was like, I need to move on for this trip.

01:23:31.12
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And I want to be clear with people that every time after each one of those days for you, you would you would message me and be like, I got to this part of the climb.

01:23:41.83
Alex
Yeah.

01:23:43.63
Neely Quinn
Or I did this scary clip. Or it wasn’t like, I made this giant link.

01:23:47.42
Alex
Or if I chose to get Titty working on it, this would be my goals.

01:23:48.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:23:51.48
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.

01:23:52.50
Neely Quinn
So, yeah, cool.

01:23:53.02
Alex
It was fun. It was engaging. It was exciting.

01:23:57.79
Neely Quinn
Well, yeah, now you’re doing the work to to try it again later.

01:23:58.80
Alex
Thank you.

01:24:05.29
Alex
yes

01:24:06.56
Neely Quinn
um Okay, so that was five for you. And I think I did one, two, three, four. Okay, I do have one more.

01:24:18.76
Neely Quinn
And that is the patriarchy. So my husband is so tired of me talking about the patriarchy. But if we’re talking about things that I learned this year, um I’ve always considered myself a feminist. But this year I went a little bit further with that and read books about the patriarchy.

01:24:42.56
Neely Quinn
as it relates to just like general society, but also as it relates to body image. And I just got like pretty deep in it. And then I had to stop because I found myself being very angry a lot of the time. um I would just get so riled up listening to these books or whatever. So I took a break from it. But what I did, you know, in terms of climbing i I now see the patriarchy much more clearly like as it presents itself and I try to see it as objectively as possible. I’m not like, I hate men. It’s not like that at all. It’s just that the system is such that A, men are taught that emotions are bad and that they shouldn’t have them and that it’s annoying that women have them. And women are taught that in some ways we should be subservient to men and

01:25:33.71
Neely Quinn
um and do things that it you know compromise ourselves in order to please them and everyone around us. That’s like so generalized, and I know that I’m messing this up, but in my mind, that’s kind of how it is. So when I see this kind of thing play out in climbing,

01:25:52.24
Neely Quinn
It’s just an observation and sometimes I’ll call it out um and sometimes I won’t. But for instance, some things that have happened this year are I’ve noticed a lot of fear shaming and most of it’s coming from males.

01:26:08.96
Neely Quinn
If it’s it’s on Instagram, like I made this post about, or it’s not even fear shaming, it’s basically just emotion shaming, ah where like you’ll get scared on a root or on a boulder or whatever, and you’ll say that, and you’ll get like shit for it, basically. And online, there’ll be these male trolls who are like, stop being such a pussy or whatever and or like it’s not even that scary or whatever. And so then you feel ashamed of having your emotion and then that just snowballs into your climbing performance and anxiety levels.

01:26:46.92
Neely Quinn
And so what I have been doing at least online when I get these trolls, and I guess they’re not trolls. They’re just like victims of the patriarchy. And it’s always males. I don’t ever get negative troll like comments from females ever, um which I really appreciate. Thank you. I feel like males ah feel like their voice. they It’s like they have this um

01:27:18.99
Neely Quinn
What’s the word? Entitlement, that their voice needs to be heard and that they need to control ah the amount of emotions that happen in climbing. And so the way that I respond to them is simply like, you’re shaming me or whomever for having emotions.

01:27:38.71
Neely Quinn
I don’t want to feel shame. I’m allowed to have emotions and so are you. And please speak to me with more respect moving further or I will block you. So I don’t engage in it in like this aggressive,

01:27:54.01
Neely Quinn
you know, tit for tat way. I’m not going to sit there and like insult him back. But I have been trying to be really clear that I will not tolerate that on our Instagram or in emails. I write emails back to people like this.

01:28:12.23
Neely Quinn
um And in my daily life, like I’m not tolerating that shit anymore. I’m not hanging out with people who act that way. I’ve like stopped hanging out with certain people who are very entrenched in the patriarchy. And I can’t tell you, like I feel so liberated. I feel so empowered where I’m like, I don’t actually have to deal with that if I don’t want to. I can choose the level of emotional evolution that I want to be around. um And I think that we all can do that. you don’t have like I went to the gym the other day and I was hanging out with these older climbers who are pretty OG and I got off of this 13A that I sent and the woman was like, oh, congrats. But these guys told me that it’s only 12C. And I was like, Okay, thank you, first of all, for invalidating my send. And second of all, I said, I don’t care what they think. I know what a 13A feels like for me. And in this gym, that feels like 13A to me.

01:29:20.67
Neely Quinn
and And I didn’t say it in a combative way.

01:29:22.41
Alex
I’m so proud of you. That’s amazing.

01:29:26.95
Neely Quinn
It was more just like, this is my truth and I’m going to stand in it and I don’t care what these tall, insecure men think of me. that That’s fine. They can think that and they can live their life like that, but I’m not going to engage in it.

01:29:40.84
Neely Quinn
And I see that shit all the time in climbing. like Make your own rules up. You know what a 13A or a 10A feels like for you? Stand in that. So I’ve just seen it a lot, like observed it a lot, and I’m over it, honestly.

01:29:59.33
Alex
I have a comment.

01:30:01.11
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:30:01.49
Alex
One is I have seen you handle incoming bombs, like super angry dude emails or something.

01:30:13.41
Alex
And not only handle it gracefully, but not let it affect you the same. Like because you respond in the way you do and you’ve come to the conclusions you’ve come to this year, it’s affecting you different than it ever has before, similar to like the wobblers or things like that. Like you’re just.

01:30:35.53
Alex
It seems like by understanding it more, by learning about it more, by thinking about it more, and then by coming up with tools and having a template for how you want to handle it when you see it or experience it, it’s freed you up.

01:30:50.05
Neely Quinn
yeah Yeah, thanks.

01:30:50.68
Alex
Like you said, liberated, but I actually like it’s, to me, it’s very visible. It’s really cool.

01:30:56.86
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s interesting.

01:30:57.12
Alex
Yeah.

01:30:57.82
Neely Quinn
It’s like I’m out of the matrix. you know It’s like the movie.

01:31:00.82
Alex
Mm-hmm.

01:31:01.78
Neely Quinn
You’re like, oh, I can see this clearly now. I don’t have to be i don’t have to emotionally involved myself in it. and And I do want to clarify, obviously, there’s a spectrum of the patriarchy, like where we all live on it.

01:31:15.36
Neely Quinn
I’m not saying that all men are like this at all. I’m not saying that all women are like this at all. I’m saying that there are some males and some females too, who, they’re just some people who are more entrenched in it.

01:31:27.82
Neely Quinn
And I love, I have many male friends and I just want to like, cause I know that men hear me talking about this and they get immediately offended. Like I hate them all.

01:31:38.16
Neely Quinn
And I, and I think, and I, and I think that they’re all the same and I don’t like at all.

01:31:39.50
Alex
You definitely don’t.

01:31:44.65
Neely Quinn
So.

01:31:45.78
Alex
Yeah, I actually really love this conversation and I hope it gets expanded because I think it’s a really important one. um It brings to mind. I don’t know if I should, you could edit this out if you want to, but while in the red, I witnessed a.

01:32:04.25
Alex
abusive dad to his child, essentially.

01:32:05.88
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

01:32:06.89
Alex
And it was awful. It was hard to be around. It was hard for everybody who experienced that at the crack. And when you, what you mentioned, I think is really important that we do have empowerment to do something about it.

01:32:21.39
Alex
Like I reported him, I reported him to USA climbing and that was really important for me to do because I couldn’t see that and not

01:32:29.92
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

01:32:30.56
Alex
act on it in some way and not say something in some way. Um, and so it’s just kind of looking out for each other. Like I think part of being in a community is we take care of each other, we look out for each other, but that includes stepping up when something feels wrong or just, or even for yourself, protecting yourself when something feels wrong.

01:32:47.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:32:50.92
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. And I know that that was hard for you to do and everything that that that situation was, was the patriarchy. He was like shaming his child for having emotions and having difficulty and not being perfect.

01:32:59.70
Alex
Yeah.

01:33:06.23
Alex
Yeah.

01:33:06.84
Neely Quinn
and t and like fully lashing out about it. And yeah, so it’s just everywhere. And I think the more that we’re aware of it, the more we can catch ourselves being a part of it.

01:33:21.25
Alex
I think so too. And I think it’s really, really brave to bring it up. So thank you so much.

01:33:26.80
Neely Quinn
I think it is too. I think I’ll probably get a lot of backlash and there are probably a lot of people who are who have already turned this podcast off and will probably never listen to me again because I said that like, yeah, exactly.

01:33:28.72
Alex
yeah

01:33:36.28
Alex
And if they send you an angry email, they know what to expect in response.

01:33:42.40
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly. But at this point in my life, I’m like, look, I don’t want you in my life if that’s how you feel about it anyway. Like if you can’t accept me even talking about this, then please go listen to somebody else.

01:33:56.90
Alex
Yeah, it comes up a lot in my coaching, honestly, like a lot of times people’s performance goals are not being supported or being directly inhibited by toxic partnerships.

01:33:57.48
Neely Quinn
Yeah. How so?

01:34:09.03
Neely Quinn
Yes.

01:34:10.03
Alex
It’s pretty common. So yeah.

01:34:11.64
Neely Quinn
Right. Like women, females not advocating for themselves in their, in having their own goals. And yeah.

01:34:19.23
Alex
or men, yeah, more commonly women, but yes, or men too, where yeah, I think it’s important.

01:34:23.46
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

01:34:29.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah, super important.

01:34:30.20
Alex
And thank you for going there.

01:34:33.92
Neely Quinn
Yeah, just canceled myself, but whatever.

01:34:37.38
Alex
It’s okay.

01:34:38.74
Neely Quinn
All right, so that was five from each of us. more like It might’ve been six from me. I don’t know. But um that was really fun. And it seems like we’ve both had a great productive 2024.

01:34:52.71
Alex
I think it was an incredibly profound 2024. I’m really, really thankful for 2024.

01:34:58.41
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:34:59.52
Alex
I’m also ready for less therapy in 2025.

01:35:03.20
Neely Quinn
Yeah, therapy can be like pretty triggering and intense.

01:35:04.39
Alex
yeah Less introspection in 2025. I’m good for a little bit, but I’ve, yeah, I loved it.

01:35:12.13
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah, me too. Great. Well, I’ll let you get back to your New Year’s Day. And um hopefully, I get to see you soon. And thank you so much for this insightful, riveting conversation. And yeah, I’ll talk to you soon.

01:35:26.12
Alex
Thank you, Neely. Bye.