Transcript

00:00:01.80
neelyquinn
All right. Welcome to the show. Ashley. Thanks so much for talking to me today.

00:00:05.49
ashley
Thanks so much for having me on.

00:00:07.40
neelyquinn
Yeah. So for anybody who doesn’t know you, can you describe yourself? Introduce us to you.

00:00:13.37
ashley
Yeah, I’m a climber. I lived in Boulder, Colorado. I’ve been here for about eight or nine years. I’m a software engineer and I started climbing about 11 years ago.

00:00:25.75
neelyquinn
Nice. And where are you from originally?

00:00:28.09
ashley
I’m from Connecticut.

00:00:30.34
neelyquinn
And did you, when did you start climbing? Oh, 11 years ago, but so that was in Connecticut.

00:00:36.61
ashley
No, I actually wasn’t. So I went to school at Colorado College in Colorado Springs. um And I was introduced to climbing my senior year the last semester. So I was actually, I was home in Connecticut for winter break, which was about a month long. And my boyfriend at the time gave me climbing shoes.

00:00:59.66
ashley
Um, for a Christmas present. And so we got it. We both got climbing gym memberships that month and I was obsessed. I went every single day.

00:01:09.80
ashley
Um, I was like, this is my purpose and this is what I’m doing in life now.

00:01:15.78
neelyquinn
Nice.

00:01:15.91
ashley
So that’s how I got started.

00:01:17.95
neelyquinn
Cool. And how old are you?

00:01:19.70
ashley
I’m 33.

00:01:21.22
neelyquinn
Okay. So you started climbing when you were 22 ish.

00:01:24.28
ashley
Yeah.

00:01:25.06
neelyquinn
So right after college and, or right at the end of college. And you just said that you decided that climbing was your purpose. What exactly did you love about it so much?

00:01:38.67
ashley
I loved feeling really strong in my body. I hadn’t felt that like strength and confidence before. I hadn’t really like experienced being good at a sport before and not like I was like automatically good at climbing or anything, but I felt really empowered by it and I felt like I could achieve what I thought was impossible for myself. I remember being like three weeks into climbing and saying okay I want to climb this v3 and I think this is like impossible I have no idea how to approach this I was at the gym by myself and I had no idea what I was doing and I just tried and accomplished it and I was like wow I literally accomplished something like I accomplished my impossible I just defeated this thing that I never thought I could do

00:02:24.41
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:02:28.02
ashley
And that was so empowering to me. And I was like, okay, if I can do this, what else can I do? And I just felt very strong for the first time, not only physically but mentally.

00:02:39.51
neelyquinn
Right. Yeah. I think so many people can probably relate to that. I definitely can too. You’re like, you get this taste of accomplishment and physical strength and mental challenge being overcome and you’re like, this is delicious.

00:02:55.30
ashley
Exactly. It’s very addicting to me and it still is.

00:02:58.78
neelyquinn
Yeah. Okay. So, um, from there, you, you’re already living in Colorado. So then obviously you came back at some point after college, um, eight year, eight or nine years ago. And did you just start climbing all the time then?

00:03:19.15
ashley
So I was on like winter break. And so I came when I started climbing. So I came back to college and then kind of forgot all about it.

00:03:26.10
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:03:26.85
ashley
I just caught caught up in like senior year and like socializing and all that sort of stuff. And until I met Patrick, who’s my current husband, as you know,

00:03:36.57
neelyquinn
Your current husband.

00:03:39.11
ashley
my husband um and and So I had a huge crush on him. We weren’t dating, but he showed me outdoor climbing and I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. And we did all sorts of like adventurous climbing. So I didn’t know anything about red pointing or projecting. or even leading. I just would follow him up different multi-pitches. We’d go to Garden of the Gods or 11 Mile Canyon and do some like what I thought was just like the most wild adventurous climbing. So we did that for a while and graduated school and went on a road trip and continued to do that adventurous climbing. We spent a long time in Joshua Tree doing multi-pitching and just trad climbing.

00:04:24.42
ashley
And went to a few sport climbing areas. I remember he called me top rope, tough girl in the middle of our road trip. And I was like, wait, what? Like, I didn’t even know that you were supposed to like lead. I thought you just got up the route by any means possible. So I started leading a bit. And then after that, we moved to Smith Rock or moved to Bend after college. And I started really climbing at Smith Rock. And I felt like that’s where I really learned how to climb.

00:04:54.38
neelyquinn
Yeah, especially had a sport climb since you had been doing a lot of Chad before that.

00:04:58.45
ashley
Exactly.

00:04:59.19
neelyquinn
Hmm. All right. I mean, that’s quite a departure from adventure climbing to then go to like nails, hard, scary, run out Smithrock climbing.

00:05:11.20
neelyquinn
How was that?

00:05:12.68
ashley
Yeah, I guess it kind of was, but like again, I didn’t really know what I was doing. So all climbing was just like adventurous and scary to me. And Smith Rock kind of is, you know, it is scary as well.

00:05:24.37
ashley
So I just thought climbing was like terrifying, but that was like the aspect that drew me in the most was like, okay, how do I accomplish my fear?

00:05:35.31
ashley
Or like how do I like overcome my fear? um and learn how to fall. um My progress was really slow at Smith. I feel it was just um just like learning how to get up the route and like seeing if I could get up the route.

00:05:51.75
ashley
I would i would always go with random partners because I worked at a restaurant and I had really odd working hours. So I just go with random people and like random people on belays like not the most inspiring or like confidence inspiring thing.

00:06:01.91
neelyquinn
Hmm. Yeah.

00:06:06.50
ashley
um So yeah, it was scary, but it was like all part of the experience.

00:06:15.95
neelyquinn
Sorry, I just choked. um Hang on a second. I have to edit this out. I was really intense. um Yeah, so so the fear was all part of the experience.

00:06:31.47
neelyquinn
From the very beginning, it sounds like, I mean, maybe not in the gym quite as much. but ah And it seems like now you still embrace that.

00:06:42.22
neelyquinn
like You guys still do some some sort of, what’s the word, obscure, ah not super well-known climbs.

00:06:48.42
ashley
Mhm.

00:06:51.90
neelyquinn
like that’s That’s part of what you guys are into, right? That can sometimes be scary and challenging in different ways.

00:06:55.31
ashley
Yeah.

00:06:58.44
ashley
Definitely. I think that’s also more to like avoid the crowds, though, to be completely honest. um Because just on the front range, you experience a lot of lines for classic climbs.

00:07:09.64
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:07:09.78
ashley
And I really like the solitude and kind of like nature aspect of climbing. So I think I seek out those climbs in order to like find that solitude um and to have a more like intimate experience with the climb.

00:07:27.07
neelyquinn
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, good job being motivated to get out to these obscure places to do that.

00:07:34.34
ashley
Thanks.

00:07:35.20
neelyquinn
Okay. So I’m going to take us back a little bit because I want to understand, um, like where your attitude towards climbing comes from. Like, where did this desire to achieve and overcome and, you know, do hard things come from? Did you have a sports background? Were you raised a certain way? Where did that come from?

00:07:58.28
ashley
That’s a really good question. um I didn’t really have too much of a sports background. I did dance growing up, but it wasn’t competitive. And like I said, I was never really like good at a sport or confident in a sport. So I think I learned through climbing.

00:08:14.28
ashley
that I am a really goal oriented person. And I think I just needed to be like set up for success in a certain way. So climbing, having a grading system was really easy to achieve like the next level, or to have my goal be like, Oh, I want to achieve the next level. and Um, so I think that’s definitely part of it. And I just, like I said, really enjoy like the the overcoming of like the mental aspect of climbing and the fear and the um like the requirement to execute. And so I just find that really like addicting in a way. And I don’t know like what exactly it is, but it just suits me really well, I think.

00:09:03.10
neelyquinn
Yeah. And do you feel like that carries over into your work life at all?

00:09:09.89
ashley
No. um I enjoy my work for sure, but climbing to me, I mean I need to get my paycheck, but climbing comes before work, climbing comes before a lot of things I think. I like to do a good job at work, ah but I’m not like a super high achiever I would say in a way, like I want to have freedom and get paid and be able to rock climb. So I think climbing brings this like side out of me that I don’t have and or I don’t access in a lot of parts of my life and maybe that’s why it’s like so addicting to me.

00:09:49.74
neelyquinn
Yeah, that makes sense. And I feel like it’s really difficult to have it in every area of your life. I feel like it can cause burnout, which you don’t seem to struggle with, with climbing.

00:10:01.90
ashley
No, I mean, I go through phases, I would say. I’m in a really psyched phase right now, but I definitely go through phases where I’m like, why am I doing this? um Do I still enjoy this? And you know to a certain extent, I kind of block those out, to be honest, because climbing means so much to me and has been such a huge part of my life over the last 11 years.

00:10:25.16
ashley
and it’s It’s disorienting to think like I might not do this anymore. So when I do go through those phases, I kind of just push it down, which is I’m not saying is like the healthiest thing.

00:10:36.92
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:10:38.03
ashley
But um it’s just means so much. It has meant so much to me over the years, that it’s scary to think that like I could stop doing it at any point.

00:10:48.84
neelyquinn
Hmm. You mean because of like injury or age or something else?

00:10:54.15
ashley
cycle level really which Which is impacted by you know injuries like if I have injuries last year I Climbed a route that I was super excited about and I was walking down and I sprained my ankles So badly on the hike down while I was talking about all the other routes that I wanted to do I

00:10:55.46
neelyquinn
Oh, okay. Like if you did get burned out. Hmm.

00:11:17.74
neelyquinn
Aww.

00:11:20.61
ashley
i That really like sent me into this period. It was like a three month recovery period. I couldn’t climb a whole lot. And that always sends me into this space where like, well, why do I want to do this anyways? Like if I take that pause from climbing, it’s hard to get some psych back.

00:11:40.55
neelyquinn
Hmm. Yeah. I think a lot of people can relate to that too. I actually just had a mindset client who is having that exact experience. And she had a mindset session with me just to figure out how to get her psych back because it’s so scary to lose it.

00:11:55.81
ashley
Mm hmm.

00:11:57.01
neelyquinn
And you’re like, wait, who am I? What am I doing?

00:11:59.78
ashley
Exactly.

00:11:59.91
neelyquinn
But yeah, can you explain a little bit about why you think your psych level dropped so much in that time?

00:12:06.68
ashley
I think just taking a break from it, I’m like, Oh, I actually don’t need to climb in order to be fulfilled, which is Yeah, it’s just like ironic.

00:12:16.84
ashley
like i ah one you know In one way, I’m so attached to it, but at the other, I feel like I’m fumbling so bad, maybe edit.

00:12:26.59
neelyquinn
Yeah, that’s fine.

00:12:27.07
ashley
length um But like taking a pause from climbing, I realized that I’m like happy without it and I don’t actually need it. And so then I wonder why I’m spending like so much energy into this and and so attached and like climbing causes a lot of stress for me which i think is like also translates to like adrenaline and being excited and captivated by climbing but then if you realize oh i don’t actually need to add all this stress and like so much time climbing so much of my life is like built around like how am i going to get outside how am i going to climb if i didn’t have to do that like i could spend so much energy on other things

00:13:04.81
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:13:10.25
neelyquinn
I know it’s amazing. You’re like, I don’t have to go outside all the time, prepare food, get up early, like be away from house tasks, not, you know, have a messy house all the time.

00:13:15.98
ashley
one Exactly.

00:13:22.24
neelyquinn
Like it’s, it is very disorienting sometimes. Yeah. Okay. I have a lot of questions about some of those things. I want to give people a little bit of a background on you ah about work because you sat in there like I, I’d spend so much of my time like figuring out how to get outside and everything. And I think that, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today is because of the fact that you do make it a priority and you do have what I’m, I’m assuming is a full-time job.

00:13:56.69
ashley
Yes.

00:13:57.20
neelyquinn
Yeah. So you’ve full time work. Do you work from home all the time?

00:14:01.91
ashley
Yeah. So after, or like during COVID, most software engineers went remote. So I’ve been remote for the past like three or four years.

00:14:12.37
neelyquinn
Yeah. So you’re working remote full time. I’m assuming like my husband, as you know, is also a software engineer and it’s a, it can be a kind of a high stress job. And so it’s not like you have a super cush job. Like you said, you’re not super high over overachiever with it, but still you have duties and stress. And yet you still make time to go climbing. How often?

00:14:41.02
ashley
I climb at this point three or four days a week outside when like during the time of year where it’s like light out. Is that daylight savings? or I go to the gym twice a week.

00:14:52.96
neelyquinn
And then during the winter, what do you do?

00:14:58.14
ashley
And then on the weekends, I try and climb outside Saturday and Sunday.

00:15:01.96
neelyquinn
Okay. And so you’re doing this mostly with your husband, right?

00:15:07.70
ashley
Hmm.

00:15:08.82
neelyquinn
And he also has a job and it’s similar working from home full time.

00:15:11.34
ashley
Yes.

00:15:16.10
ashley
Yep.

00:15:17.74
neelyquinn
Yeah. And so you guys are still prioritizing. Like when do you even make time for that during the week?

00:15:25.51
ashley
So our schedule gets really hectic so I call this time of year like after work season and it’s what I live for because i there is enough light to climb outside after work and so we shift our schedules. I don’t always climb with Patrick, I have other climbing partners ah But I shift my schedule to work seven to three on my climbing days. And a lot of my co-workers are on the East Coast, so I don’t have meetings that go later than three, which I feel lucky about.

00:16:00.09
ashley
um and I will shift my schedule and then right at three, like I’m packed and ready to go. I’m out the door at three or potentially earlier if possible. One reason Patrick and I climb so much together is that it’s really easy to like adjust our schedule on the fly. so If someone says, oh, I have a meeting like at 3.30 now, can we go a little bit later? You don’t have to text your climbing partner and go back and forth and be like, I’m so sorry, I have to meet you later. We’re just like, okay, let’s go at you know let’s go at four now. And it’s really ah easy to kind of make changes on the fly. So I do that sort of thing a lot.

00:16:38.89
ashley
um but After work season is intense like emotionally, physically, like we’re if we we were projecting in the Flatirons over the past like six weeks, and we’re leave at three where it’s in 15 minute drive to the trailhead and our hike up.

00:16:58.94
ashley
And then it’s like on the, on the projects, like right away warming up. We have like specific warming up strategies for, you know, whatever climb that we’re doing. And it’s super efficient, but still we’re not home maybe until like nine 30. And we have to make dinner or we’re eating leftovers. We’re not like.

00:17:16.78
ashley
Going to sleep until like, you know It’s really hard for me to wind down from such an intense experience Especially if you’re like projecting super hard and you’ve been out you’ve been working all day then going out Projecting and then you’re back and you’ve eaten by 10 maybe and then you have to wind down And do it all over again. I love it though I feel like it just makes me feel like my life is so full and gives me, you know, reason to look forward to the week. Like I’m still climbing outside after work during the week. Like I’m so look forward to that. And so I love doing that, but it’s definitely like exhausting.

00:17:56.21
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. When you lay it all out like that, that’s exactly what it takes. ah And especially that hike is really hard. And then you’re trying really hard and then you’re hiking down and you’re exhausted. And like just the food prep that’s involved in getting something into your face when you get home and then sleeping enough to recover from it all. And then, you know, it’s yeah, it’s a lot.

00:18:19.80
ashley
Exactly. Yeah, it makes the off days like if you’re like hanging out with friends on the off days, it’s like, oh my gosh, like, I don’t have a single day to just like relax by myself.

00:18:30.42
ashley
But like I said, I also enjoy that so much.

00:18:30.62
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:18:32.82
ashley
It makes me feel like my life is so full.

00:18:35.39
neelyquinn
Yeah. And then when it’s not, uh, after work season, you’re just climbing in the gym those two days instead of being outside. And then you’re climbing on the weekends.

00:18:45.92
ashley
Exactly.

00:18:48.07
neelyquinn
But in a conversation we had the other day, you told me that you realized that, um, climbing only one day on the weekend sometimes has been beneficial for you. Can you tell me about that?

00:18:59.01
ashley
Yeah, definitely. I’m not sure what I’m going to do this winter after having that conversation with you, because this year or this summer, I have um been coming one day off one day on instead of trying to cram two weekend days in.

00:19:14.16
ashley
And it’s helped me a lot. In the past years, I feel like I’ve projected Saturday and tried to like Fred Point Saturday. And then Sunday, I’ll climb something that’s at an easier level. That’s maybe like a day project for me or like a couple of goes. And this year, I’ve just been projecting instead of climbing easier climbs. And in order to be successful in that, I feel like I’ve had to take one weekday off.

00:19:42.44
ashley
which is kind of crazy because like we were talking about climbing takes up so much time so you have to if you have a full like Saturday or a full Sunday to do whatever else it feels kind of wild and feels disorienting and you’re like what I get to like roll relax maybe like read a book or something This feels crazy.

00:20:01.57
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:20:03.42
ashley
But anyways, I’ve been much more successful in my climbing this year. I’ve climbed a lot more hard routes with these tactics. So I think I value climbing outside too much to not do or like to climb only one weekend day over the winter.

00:20:19.48
ashley
We’ll see though.

00:20:20.49
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. um But shoot, I just lost my train of thought, which is happening a lot today. This is going to be a big edit.

00:20:35.91
neelyquinn
It’s just that I have a lot of different ah zones that I want to explore with you. um

00:20:50.00
neelyquinn
Oh, so with your schedule now, you said that you’ve been doing day on day off. So that would that look like Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and then Monday, when’s, is it always one day a one off or one on one off, or are you ever taking two days off?

00:21:07.12
ashley
It’s not as religious as that. I do a lot of two days off, especially recently.

00:21:10.47
neelyquinn
Okay.

00:21:12.38
ashley
I feel like I need more rest than most people. So I don’t, I think two or even three days off can be really beneficial for me, especially if I’m going really hard on routes.

00:21:24.81
ashley
Um, three days off is a magical number for me. I feel phenomenal when I get back on the wall.

00:21:31.79
neelyquinn
Yeah, I would like to talk about that for a second because I think that a lot of people think of three days off as like ah sacrilegious almost. They’re like, I’m going to lose everything that I’ve gained by doing this. How could you possibly even want me to do three days off? But I totally agree with you and I always have. um It is magical. So what how did you learn that and what do you feel is magical about it?

00:22:00.72
ashley
Yeah, I learned that by accident. I remember actually like four or five years ago I was projecting something in the flat irons and It was going well, but I took three days off and I felt amazing warming up. I was like, should I just try and red point this on the warmup? But I stopped myself and it made myself lower so that I wouldn’t get flash pumped. And then I sent it next go like really easily. And so ever since then, I’ve always been aware that like three days off feels really good for me because I’ve repeated that um and just experienced that again. And ah yeah, I don’t know.

00:22:40.48
neelyquinn
Yeah, that’s great. I just love people like people explaining it and talking about it so that it can get into people’s brains, but it’s even an option, you know?

00:22:48.57
ashley
personally I think people don’t allow themselves enough time to recover or I just learned I need more time to recover because otherwise I get injured.

00:22:54.74
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:22:58.43
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. And your brain is fresh when you come back and everything.

00:23:02.12
ashley
True.

00:23:02.81
neelyquinn
um Let’s talk about your, let’s talk about your recent send. Tell me about that. You worked um pretty hard on this project and then you sent it.

00:23:12.99
neelyquinn
And I was really impressed because it is a nails climb. um And it’s awkward and it’s yeah. So tell me about what the climb was and what your process was like on it.

00:23:25.09
ashley
Sure. So I just sent Choose Life in the Flatirons. It’s a 13C. And to actually go back in time, I tried this route four years ago, which I didn’t tell you about. um The route was, in my mind, quite notorious for having this long run out at the Red Point Crocs.

00:23:43.16
ashley
and So pairing, so I had never climbed to 13C before. This is actually my first one. And so at that point, I was very intimidated by the number and I dialed the climb down to like, it was easy. Like I, this was four years ago.

00:24:00.42
ashley
And um that but the the run out at the top was such a, like, such a, yeah like, block blocker for me mentally, like, i I was so scared to go up there.

00:24:16.62
ashley
and to do the redpoint crocs pumped and um so run out. So one day I decided okay I just need to like commit to this and really try and do this section without being clipped up and I did and I took um I fell on the last move and I think there was so much slack in the rope that my foot caught the rope and I took this enormous fall upside down.

00:24:44.52
ashley
I thought while I was flying in midair I was like I might die if I hit the rock because my head is just flying towards it and I don’t know how to like save myself in this moment.

00:24:44.75
neelyquinn
Oh my God.

00:24:58.33
ashley
And since this incident happened, I’ve heard that other people have had this experience as well. Long story short, I fell into a minor alcove and I didn’t hit the wall, which was like truly a miracle to me. I was so scared after that that there was no way I was going to do this route. But someone added a bolt there, which I’m so thankful for. And so I came back four years later with more confidence.

00:25:25.30
ashley
And I got on the route and was like, this is no problem. If there’s a bolt there, this isn’t scary to me. Like, this is just a normal route. But I learned that mentally, I still had this block when I got up there, I would start shaking.

00:25:39.24
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:25:39.24
ashley
Because unconsciously, my brain was telling me like, you’re not safe, because those old feelings were coming up of like going into this like run out section that didn’t exist anymore.

00:25:50.43
ashley
So This route was so mentally difficult for me and it’s very anti-style as well. So I was really committed to getting it done. And my friend even asked me to go for on a trip and I was like, no, I need to do this route. It’s really important to me personally. And she was like, wow, okay, route coming before your friends. And I was like, honestly, in a way it kind of does in this moment. like This means so much to me to overcome this, like, I felt like I had failed previously. I gave up, I’ve never given up on a route like that, that I put a lot of time into. And so I felt like I needed to overcome this personal failure and prove to myself that I could do this thing that was so hard for me.

00:26:40.05
ashley
And so hard, especially because this history that I had with it of like the fall of working it down, giving it, giving up. I went with a lot of random partners back in the day to do this. And I just like felt that I needed to overcome that whole experience and prove to myself that I could do it.

00:26:59.08
neelyquinn
Yeah. Wow. That’s huge. So when you did find like, did those jitters start to go away? Like the shaking and the the nervousness, did you start to, to overcome that?

00:27:14.37
ashley
Definitely. I really like worked the route down and it was kind of a crazy experience because I learned like wow i can overcome or like i can work this route down that’s the hardest thing i’ve ever climbed has all this like mental baggage and it was literally like 85 to 90 degrees every time i climbed this route and i was like yeah if i can if i can do this like that’s a huge accomplishment to me wait nearly i forgot your question

00:27:45.60
neelyquinn
ah Did the jitters start to go away?

00:27:45.78
ashley
yeah

00:27:48.18
neelyquinn
like Did you start to feel calmer up there?

00:27:51.40
ashley
Yeah, I felt way more calm, but I still felt like there is a really scary clip to me um up on the upper section. So basically the route starts, it’s really long route. It takes about like 40 minutes to red point. So it starts with this traverse, really awkward, like weird traverse, powerful sections to a stem rest. And then you’re like in this really strenuous stem rest, looking up at the final boulder problem, which is like,

00:28:18.82
ashley
two bolt lengths and I would get the jitters every time going into that upper section because I felt like the two clips those two clips were still really intense and kind of scary and like on this route every time you clip something you’re looking down at your last bolt and where that is and it’s kind of an airy route so I would still get the jitters up there but I definitely like improved a lot and like felt a lot calmer but still even when I sent I started shaking like on the final moves and in my head I was like No, like focus, do this, like stop like freaking out and just do it. And so, yeah, I still i still felt that battle to the end of it.

00:28:59.58
neelyquinn
Hmm. Yeah. but Did your body listen to you? Was your body like, okay, I’ll stop shaking.

00:29:05.04
ashley
yeah Yes, it was crazy. I was literally shaking and then I was like, nope, focus, do this now. And then I stopped shaking and executed.

00:29:14.84
neelyquinn
Dang, that’s amazing. Good job.

00:29:17.28
ashley
Thanks. Yeah, I say a lot of things to myself while I climb like that, which I think is very helpful.

00:29:22.95
neelyquinn
Out loud.

00:29:24.27
ashley
Sometimes out loud, but mostly in my head.

00:29:27.14
neelyquinn
Yeah, I was just talking to a friend about how they were reading a book about how you, when you say things out loud to yourself, they’re more impactful. And I, I do that sometimes on roots too.

00:29:34.54
ashley
Hmm.

00:29:36.27
neelyquinn
But anyway, I can just see you up there mid mid crux, like, no, stop it.

00:29:43.38
ashley
Exactly. Sometimes I ask my partner,

00:29:44.47
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:29:45.99
ashley
Did you hear me say anything up there? And they’re always like, no, I was talking to myself.

00:29:49.17
neelyquinn
Yeah. So when you, when you finished it, how did you feel? What did that mean to you?

00:29:57.82
ashley
It meant a lot to me, but honestly, it was a pretty strange feeling because I knew I was going to do the route. I had 100% confidence that I was going to do the route, but I didn’t know when. And I had never project and projected something for that long before.

00:30:15.40
ashley
um It took me several weeks. I was to i went up there 12 days total. And so I never experienced that before. Usually I do projects that are like four or five days. And so I feel a lot of like surprise and excitement when I send because I’m not working down the route to that extent that I was on Choose Life. And so when I got to the top, I just was like, wow, like I did it, but I’m not like freaking out about it. And I felt very calm and just excited that I never had to go up the route anymore.

00:30:56.27
ashley
Honestly, it’s not my favorite route. That was like part of the reason I gave up previously is it’s anti-style. I don’t like love it. It can be kind of awkward and like it’s awkwardly powerful as well. So um I just felt like, wow, I don’t have to like ever do that scary clip again. I can just be like done and put this to rest.

00:31:17.82
neelyquinn
Hmm. So it was a relief.

00:31:20.91
ashley
Yeah, but then also like a sadness in a way. I mean, I know a lot of professional climbers I’ve heard have talked about that where it’s like kind of a depression after you send I I didn’t feel like depressed or anything.

00:31:32.50
ashley
It wasn’t like that extreme to me, but I felt like Kind of sad and lost a bit and Patrick was projecting a route next door and hadn’t sent it yet.

00:31:42.95
ashley
So I was like, thank God we still get to go hike up there after work and like do this routine that we’ve been in because I I had this routine and I don’t want to like give that up like it was so fun to go up there and work on those routes together and

00:31:48.56
neelyquinn
ah

00:31:59.45
neelyquinn
I think that this concept is something I’ve thought about a lot this year, especially because with mindset coaching, it comes up a lot where you’re like, what are my reasons for doing this and being uncomfortable and striving and toiling and suffering and being scared? What are the reasons behind that?

00:32:22.61
neelyquinn
and Because you said the biggest thing was that you felt relief and they didn’t have to do those those moves or the clip anymore. But like, there was something bigger than that, making you go up it every day, ah every day you went up there. So like, what did you actually get out of that?

00:32:42.77
ashley
I think I got a lot out of it. I mean, coming back like full circle to like my first V3 and like conquering this impossible like to me like I yes, I theoretically knew I could do this route for sure. But I wanted to like prove to myself that I actually could do it. And I needed to complete the mission like I had to like finish the route in order to show myself like Yes, you can climb it, because I left four years ago knowing, oh, 100% I can climb this route, like no doubt, but I was too scared. And so I think coming back, it’s just like conquering this, like, just the epitome of climbing to me, conquering my impossible, conquering like this dream that I didn’t know if it was possible.

00:33:30.39
neelyquinn
And I’m going to ask again, why? What is so important about doing that and proving that to yourself?

00:33:39.00
ashley
um I mean, I don’t know. I guess like just like this life experience of… I don’t know. I really don’t know how to answer that question. It’s just like something inherent deep inside me wants to know that like I can accomplish something that’s super hard for myself.

00:33:59.50
ashley
and Like if I can do that, what else can I accomplish? It opens up so many doors and so many possibilities. And like, it’s this really exciting thing where,

00:34:11.63
ashley
um yeah, like what ah what else can I do?

00:34:15.88
neelyquinn
Mm-hmm. I’ve talked about this before on the podcast, but I read this book called ah The Perfectionist’s Guide to Losing Control. And she basically delineates perfectionists and non-perfectionists by, we all can see that there is an ideal, but perfectionist like the only thing that makes a perfectionist a perfectionist is that they see the ideal and they strive towards that ideal.

00:34:40.38
neelyquinn
And there are lots of people who don’t, you know, they’re like, yeah, that’d be cool, but I’m not going to do that. But you you have, like you said, it’s like this inherent, you can’t even stop it if you wanted to.

00:34:50.90
neelyquinn
Really, it’s just there. It’s going to drive you um forever, potentially, because you’re a perfectionist.

00:34:53.24
ashley
Yeah.

00:34:58.67
neelyquinn
And I’m not saying that in a negative way. I’m just saying it by her definition. um And I think it’s super interesting that you just said, I don’t know how to answer that. Like, I don’t know what I I don’t know what I got out of it, really, like what it is. And I think that that’s something that a lot of people could relate with and what I could relate with recently. So I i think that there are a bunch of climbers out there who are perfectionists and have this drive. And you see this, like it’s very quantitative. Like you see, you said you’re a goal orient oriented person. You see a number or a climb or a whatever, and you want to see if you are capable of it and then you do it.

00:35:39.05
ashley
Mm hmm.

00:35:39.84
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:35:40.60
ashley
Yeah, even for something like even a route or like a grade that I’ve climbed so many like 100 of this grade or whatever. It’s like I still like want to do it so badly.

00:35:51.35
ashley
Like I want like I get this and jitters and I’m like, I want to complete this even though it literally doesn’t matter at all. I’ve already done so many but it’s just this like goal in front of me that I want to just do.

00:36:04.30
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. I know it’s crazy. So we had talked a little bit recently about how you do struggle. I don’t know if struggle is the right word, but you do come up against some mindset challenges sometimes with self-worth or performance anxiety. So I’ll just ask like, what are your biggest challenges ah mentally? And i I also want to talk about like physically ah later, but mentally first.

00:36:37.57
ashley
Um, I think my biggest mental block is probably falling to be honest. I feel actually like one of my strengths is like executing and actually like the mental aspect is, comes more naturally for me in certain ways. Like I definitely get send jitters, but like I am good at like getting it done and like putting the pieces together and just executing. um But I definitely have a feel fear of falling, I would say, and I’m kind of curious if that’s like originated from like my trad climbing like Smith Rock background or um my parents are very like

00:37:19.94
ashley
uh safety concerned I don’t or it’s just something that’s like inherent inside of me but I still feel today that I have a very big fear of falling that I’m able to overcome and like get routes done but I don’t hear people talk about that as much as I feel like I talk about it you know at the crack I’ll be like oh this section’s like quite scary but no one else is like saying anything like that So I think that’s probably my biggest mental block.

00:37:51.11
neelyquinn
And when you say you’re able to overcome it, how do you overcome it?

00:37:55.98
ashley
I do a lot of practice falling. So when I’m in the gym over the winter, I get, I usually boulder at the gym and just work climb on the weekends. And so I get very active out of practice sport climbing and taking falls every spring.

00:38:10.49
ashley
I need to like retrain my brain. So I’ll do like a weekend where I’m falling on the warmup. I’m falling on like every single route and just trying to like rewire my brain to like train it to say that’s okay.

00:38:23.34
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:38:24.11
ashley
Um, besides that, I. mostly want to send the route so badly that I will just like push that down ah when I’m red pointing. But it definitely comes into play when I’m like doing going up a route for the first time.

00:38:41.26
ashley
um I will sometimes stick clip up the route just to like avoid the fear of falling and It just takes like I guess a lot like I get in the groove of falling and that’s like what helps me the most is just like actively projecting actively falling all the time.

00:39:00.88
neelyquinn
Yeah, taking the falls. You’re basically taking practice falls as you’re working the route.

00:39:05.60
ashley
Yeah, exactly.

00:39:06.75
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:39:06.99
ashley
I ah feel like I’m in this phase right now, which is kind of interesting. like Choose life. All the bolts are very airy. So I thought, like oh, this is going to translate so well. I’m not going to be like scared of falling anymore. But I realized from projecting the same route and taking the same falls, I’m actually like more scared getting on new routes because I don’t know the moves perfectly. I don’t know exactly where I’m going to fall. So that’s been like a blocker for me recently.

00:39:33.96
ashley
but ah I’ve been coming with Patrick recently and he was like why are you so scared and I just having that reminder of like okay I have you like it’s okay to fall is really helpful just having a trusted partner and trying to like I’ve been trying to retrain my brain recently that I’m not actually scared I’m good at this like I’m good at doing bold things and like I I’m good at like being a bold leader and just trying to like reframe how i think of myself and how i think of like my fear of falling.

00:40:06.92
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit of different mental self-talk.

00:40:11.32
ashley
Exactly.

00:40:12.17
neelyquinn
Yeah, totally. Yeah, that’s that can be hard. i I think I’ve talked about this too, but my my husband said to me one time, like, you why are you scared? you You don’t fall on shit like that. And I was like, he’s totally right. That’s totally fair. And so I say that to myself. I’ll be like, I don’t fall on shit like this.

00:40:36.02
ashley
I like that.

00:40:38.17
neelyquinn
But um Yeah, i I like this. I think that this is what people want to hear too because it’s comforting to know that a person who has climbed the grade that you just climbed and like you’ve done, you’ve done how many 513s? I mean, you probably don’t even know.

00:40:56.11
ashley
Yeah, I’m not sure.

00:40:57.44
neelyquinn
Yeah. But like a lot. And I think that’s a lot of people’s goal is to do that and to hear from somebody that you have to work through this sphere on a constant, like a regular basis.

00:41:08.23
neelyquinn
It makes it normal. And I appreciate that and because i I mean, I have the same thing. We have a lot in common in this way. Like you’ve pushed through on projects because you get to know them intimately and you know where you’re going to fall to.

00:41:21.37
ashley
Mm-hmm.

00:41:21.48
neelyquinn
Um, but yeah, when you’re, when you’re on sighting and trying another new project, it can be really challenging.

00:41:27.39
ashley
Yeah, exactly.

00:41:28.48
neelyquinn
Every time you’re like, wait, I still have to deal with this.

00:41:30.35
ashley
No, exactly. and

00:41:34.89
neelyquinn
Stupid stick clip, but thank God for it.

00:41:38.54
ashley
I know, totally. I sometimes I wonder, like, I feel like I would be a lot farther along grade wise if I hadn’t been held back by my fear of falling, but at the same time, I’m proud of like overcoming that um to a certain extent and like working through it.

00:41:39.89
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:41:55.05
ashley
So at the same time, like that’s worthwhile in and of itself.

00:41:58.92
neelyquinn
Yeah, right. That’s a whole other thing that you are overcoming, like be reaching your potential with.

00:42:06.14
ashley
Exactly.

00:42:06.91
neelyquinn
I know I think about that too. It’s disappointing to see how easy it is for some people to just not even think about fear or not even have it. So I hear you.

00:42:18.58
neelyquinn
Um, let’s talk a little bit about the physical side of things because part of, like I said, part of the reason that I wanted to talk to you is because you, you’ve really progressed in your climbing, uh, a lot just through climbing outside. And this is something that pros and coaches say all the time. Like if you want to get better at climbing outside, you have to climb outside more. And so you’ve really embodied that and, um,

00:42:49.06
neelyquinn
However, there are lots of people who go outside climbing a lot and they don’t progress because it’s really easy to stay in your comfort zone and to not do things that are strategically going to make you stronger outside. So I’m curious if you’ve gone about your outdoor climbing with a strategy of like, this is how I’m going to get stronger Or if it’s just a byproduct of you being like, I want to climb this hard thing and I’m going to challenge myself. And that hard thing is just those things have just progressively made you stronger. So what are your thoughts on that?

00:43:23.20
ashley
I definitely think it’s the latter. like I don’t intentionally do any sort of like training outside or like um attack like and don’t know tactics like that outside. I just want to climb harder and harder stuff and like more challenging things for me. so I think just I’ve gotten better as a result of that.

00:43:44.52
ashley
and my kind of philosophy has always been I’d rather be weaker but be able to climb outside so I don’t want to sacrifice one of my precious outdoor climbing days after work to go in the gym like I will just not do that I would rather climb outside because I love it so much and it breaks up my week in a really refreshing way. So I’ve always just wanted to spend as much time outside climbing and just being like kind of ambitious, just trying to climb harder things.

00:44:21.93
neelyquinn
I think that a lot of people look at certain grades and they’re like, I can’t do that. So what do you think it is about you that has looked at these progressively harder grades and said to yourself, I can do that.

00:44:37.81
ashley
Honestly, I find my climbing partners really inspiring. So I have like a group of lady climbers that I’ll climb with, and they’re all super strong. And we all have like a similar mentality. We just really want to climb challenging things for us. So I i really think that’s been a huge push for me is seeing my climbing partners climb their first 13. And I’m like, wait, I want to do that too. like That looks crazy and fun. and like that That would be wild if I could do that. And so I feel like we all inspire each other to climb harder. And I always want my friends to climb hard so that we all get motivated to climb harder as a group. um So I think that’s been a really big part of like why I’ve pushed myself is because of my amazing climbing partners.

00:45:24.99
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just a reminder to, you know, choose wisely who we surround ourselves with.

00:45:31.85
ashley
Exactly.

00:45:32.59
neelyquinn
Yeah. So speaking of that, like, do you ever feel if you have this group of female climbers that you climb with, it’s very easy sometimes to compare yourself and not such a positive way.

00:45:46.65
neelyquinn
Do you ever struggle with that?

00:45:49.55
ashley
Um, probably like, I don’t, I don’t know. Honestly, I feel like we all inspire each other a lot, but that’s also like a really rosy way to put it. Like I definitely feel like I compare myself to my climbing partners, but like I said, it’s like almost an incentive. It’s not like, Oh, I’m worthless because they climb this and I didn’t. It’s more like being inspired by them, but I definitely compare myself to them.

00:46:18.61
neelyquinn
Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s a fine line there. But you don’t you don’t have any self worth issues. You’re not like I’m less than because she did that and I didn’t.

00:46:31.11
ashley
No, I definitely feel that with people I don’t know as well. Like I sort of know and I see around and I compare myself. I’m like, oh, I’m on the same level as them. And then I watch them send or onsite something that I wouldn’t be able to. And it’s like, oh, wow.

00:46:46.68
ashley
Like I feel like I should be able to do that. Like I feel bad about myself now or I don’t have social media anymore.

00:46:50.95
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:46:53.87
ashley
I really don’t looking at, like looking at other people’s like posts where they’ve done this or that, that makes me feel really bad about myself. And same with the E day. I don’t participate because it’s to me, it’s just such a comparison tool.

00:47:09.48
ashley
It’s not inspiring to me at all. It just makes me feel like I’m not good enough.

00:47:15.52
neelyquinn
Yeah. Are there any tools that you use to help get yourself out of that mindset when you find yourself there?

00:47:23.27
ashley
just trying to ignore it honestly like my husband had me look at AA the other day and convert myself to the other climbers because he thought it I would think it was really cool like oh I’m doing you know generally well and like this is you know me in comparison to like the most elite climbers and I should be proud of it but I felt terrible about myself

00:47:48.52
neelyquinn
Aww.

00:47:49.09
ashley
So I just was like, wow, I’m never going on there again.

00:47:51.68
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:47:52.93
ashley
Never, ever. I use mountain project to track my sends. I think that’s like a good tool for me because I don’t really know who the people are. I just know their usernames and like yeahly compare myself to them.

00:48:05.03
neelyquinn
Oh, that’s funny. ah just like avatar

00:48:09.28
ashley
you know

00:48:10.27
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you, your biggest tool is to keep yourself in a bubble and right. And, and kind of shield yourself from anything that might take you out of that and take away your focus and inspiration.

00:48:25.55
ashley
Yeah, also, I think climbing outside is helpful for that because at the gym, there’s you so many people around that you can easily compare yourself to others. But at the crag, it’s like, I’m busy, I’m i’m climbing.

00:48:37.25
ashley
And so it’s a lot more difficult, like, logistically to, yeah, and compare myself to what they’re doing because I don’t really have an understanding of what they’re doing anyways.

00:48:41.32
neelyquinn
Watch someone.

00:48:47.85
neelyquinn
Yeah. So moving back to the physical side of things, when you go to the gym in the winter, you’re just bouldering. Is that what you said?

00:48:56.93
ashley
Typically, yes.

00:48:58.07
neelyquinn
Uh, like on set boulders on the boards. What do you do?

00:49:02.07
ashley
I love just the set boulders. Like, I feel so like, I just love it’s to me, it’s like the same problem solving as outside. Obviously, it’s indoors. But like, it brings about that same like love for climbing. I do do board climbing a bit. um And I would like to do more. I’m not like great at it.

00:49:21.93
ashley
So, it can be mentally challenging for me to be inspired and stay motivated to board climb. And then this past winter, when I sprained my ankle, I did a lot of sport climbing at the gym and i ah I really loved that. Actually, I never sport climbed at the gym before because I thought it was pointless.

00:49:39.34
ashley
and

00:49:41.70
neelyquinn
Why?

00:49:43.57
ashley
It’s like, do you need more endurance or more power? Like always more power.

00:49:48.03
neelyquinn
got Yeah, yeah.

00:49:48.85
ashley
But then I realized that I was gaining so much endurance from sport climbing indoors because you just get so many laps in that I was getting so strong and it actually helped my climbing probably more than bouldering.

00:50:02.78
ashley
So I’m going to start sport climbing again at the gym instead.

00:50:03.30
neelyquinn
Really? Instead of bouldering, so you’re not going to boulder this winter.

00:50:09.79
ashley
I would like to do both, but I get really hooked on whatever I’m like excited about. And so if I feel excited about sport climbing, it’s really hard for me to like switch to bouldering the next day or something.

00:50:21.83
neelyquinn
Mm hmm. But in the past, do you feel like your bouldering has helped you excel progress in your sport climbing outside?

00:50:30.01
ashley
I definitely think so, but I’m not sure like how to measure that because whenever I go back to the gym, I feel like I need to get back into like gym shape. and i’m not really like I haven’t in the gym progressed very much bouldering over the past few years, so it’s like hard for me to measure how how much that’s impacting my climbing.

00:50:54.05
neelyquinn
And do you do any weight training or finger strength training ever?

00:50:58.30
ashley
No, I’ve done some finger strength training, but I’ve gotten injured. And so to me, it was just wasn’t worth it to train if I had to be out of commission for like a month or two.

00:51:10.56
neelyquinn
How did you, how did you injure yourself training fingers?

00:51:14.46
ashley
I have chronic flexor tendon injuries, so I think that finger forwarding was like ah tiring my fingers so much that I was compensating with my wrist or something, and I would get these flexor tendon injuries.

00:51:32.78
neelyquinn
Oh, that goes up your forearm.

00:51:35.27
ashley
It’s like through the palm of your hand all the way up to your forearm.

00:51:35.44
neelyquinn
Gotcha.

00:51:38.17
neelyquinn
Hmm. What do you think? Is that from climbing so much or what do you think?

00:51:42.73
ashley
I don’t totally know, I’ve realized that… i I think, like I said, I’m compensating with my wrist sometimes. So I’ve noticed that in under clings, instead of like having my wrist straight and aligned with my forearm, my hand is kind of bent back to get more leverage.

00:51:58.55
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:51:58.93
ashley
And that’s something that I can actually feel my flexor tendon getting like irritated from that. So I’ve been trying to consciously like be in the correct position to under cling.

00:52:09.77
ashley
That’s like good for my body. So I think there’s other areas like that that I’m not totally recognizing. um that I’m compensating.

00:52:19.79
neelyquinn
Yeah, that makes sense. So no training, just climbing a lot and you have progressed. Now you are around other climbers a lot. This is a question that I ask a lot of people and i you might not like it, but there are a lot of people who do what you do. They go outside a lot, they go to the gym, they try hard, they project, and they don’t get progressively much better.

00:52:49.92
neelyquinn
So what do you think it is about you that stands apart from other people, about your mentality, your body? And I i know you’re a humble person, but I just want you to like think critically about it.

00:53:05.41
ashley
a um I think choosing projects that aren’t too over your head. I think people get stuck on projects that are too hard for them and then they never send. They’re just like working it down with never having the expectation that they’re going to like actually send the route or be able to red point it, if that makes sense. Like, um so I think that’s one thing.

00:53:30.02
ashley
um

00:53:32.88
ashley
I think honestly taking routes like on mountain project has really helped me because I want to like get that check mark and have like completed a route. So ever since I started taking routes and like keeping a logbook of what I’ve sent, I’ve sent a lot more because I want to just like have that completion.

00:53:46.17
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:53:51.98
ashley
And I think working super hard and putting max effort in every single time. So I’m good at trying really hard. And I think that’s really important.

00:54:06.51
ashley
And going for red point attempts sooner. I think people work down beta like a crazy amount. It’s like, as soon as I have a gist of what I’m doing, I’ve done like every move. It might not be like the best way to do the move. I will go for red point burns immediately. Um, and I think that helps me send faster because I’m just like putting in that effort. And like, sometimes you surprise yourself and you’ll send it next go.

00:54:33.52
neelyquinn
Mm hmm. That was amazing. I’m so impressed with those answers. Like you’ve clearly put some thought into this. And at no point were you like, well, my fingers are extra strong, like stronger than other people’s and I have good core strength or I have a good hip flexibility. And maybe you do have some of those things, but that wasn’t even what came out of your mouth, which is kind of refreshing.

00:55:01.54
neelyquinn
It’s like a lot of tactical stuff. And try hard.

00:55:03.95
ashley
yeah Yeah, I think people make so many excuses. like When I first started climbing, it was one of the first things I noticed. like People are making so many excuses for why they didn’t send. like Just shut up and try and red point the climb. like No one cares like that your skin is not good that day. Just like yeah try hard. And like that’s inspiring to me, even if you’re on an easy climb. It’s really cool.

00:55:33.34
neelyquinn
Yeah, it seems a little stoic. You’re just like, this is what I can control. I can control what, how hard I try basically. And I can’t control what my skin feels like.

00:55:43.30
ashley
yeah

00:55:44.80
neelyquinn
I can’t control the conditions, which I want to talk to you about now. Um, and I’m just going to go and try hard.

00:55:50.28
ashley
Yeah, exactly.

00:55:51.50
neelyquinn
Yeah. So before we started talking recording, we were talking about conditions and your attitude towards them. um Because like you said, there are plenty of excuses that you can use. Like it’s too cold, it’s too hot, it’s too humid, it’s too dry, blah, blah, blah. And you said, I don’t really care. I’m not picky about conditions, which I think is a huge asset, really. I mean, it can also be silly where like, we’ll we’ll talk about that. But what’s what’s your take on that?

00:56:23.63
ashley
Yeah, I just think that when you’re at the crag, like literally every day I’m at the crag, someone’s complaining about conditions. How often do you hear someone say like, it’s great conditions out ah compared to like, oh, conditions are bad today.

00:56:38.35
ashley
It feels greasy, whatever. Like, first of all, my new attitude is like, I don’t want to hear you say that because I’m going for a red point burn.

00:56:47.35
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:56:47.51
ashley
Why do I want to hear that you think conditions are bad? Like, I almost think like that should be a part of like, people thinking about bringing that up is like how that impacts other people like going for the red point go. it’s Yes, you’re not going to have ideal conditions most of the time. like when like The perfect conditions only happen every so often. And if you’re not climbing your hardest route, you should be able to climb the route in non-ideal conditions.

00:57:16.39
ashley
so i just think that people put way too much weight on it and they kind of like dismiss that they’re going to be able to send because conditions and they like they’re shooting themselves in the foot because they have this like preset idea that like the conditions aren’t good enough to send. And so I just think like it would be great to for climbers to change their mentality around that. like i often seek out like Obviously, conditions matter. I’m not going to say like they don’t matter at all, but I often seek out like

00:57:49.86
ashley
climbs that are and are in non-ideal conditions because there’s no lines for them. And so I can get on them right away. And i that’s like part of a tactic that I have is like I don’t have to wait to get on the route. I can get on whenever I want, but the sacrifice is conditions. And I’ve learned through that that I can climb like way harder than I thought in non-ideal conditions. And it’s just been an empowering realization And I wish other people took that on because I think that it’s just like really negative thinking and I don’t really care to be like hearing about it anymore.

00:58:29.70
neelyquinn
Well, what I hear in that is that you’re not afraid to fail because a lot of times people are like, oh, I don’t want to go out there. It’s bad conditions. I’m not going to succeed.

00:58:38.42
ashley
a

00:58:38.56
neelyquinn
I’m not going to send. And you’re like, look, I just need to go out there and get some data on this route, get some reps in on these moves.

00:58:50.49
ashley
Exactly.

00:58:50.69
neelyquinn
and and be alone. And it’s it’s actually really, I actually kind of love this. And so like when I saw you in the middle of the summer, when it was blazing saddles hot out, you were like, yeah, we’ve been going to seal.

00:59:02.75
neelyquinn
And I was like, excuse me.

00:59:02.79
ashley
And then I was like, I think we’re going to go to Staunton next. And you’re like, I think it’s too cold for that. And I was like, yes, that’s exactly the answer I want because then no one’s going to be there.

00:59:12.74
neelyquinn
Perfect.

00:59:18.79
neelyquinn
That’s amazing. That’s great. Here I am, like, poo-pooing the conditions. But also I think that what you said about like people saying out loud, this is bad conditions and kind of putting that potentially into your head and maybe us being a little bit more careful about that. It’s like a really good PSA, PSA purple looks. so Yeah. PSA for people. Oh, and I appreciate that. I think that I’m going to stop saying anything if I ever do. Yeah.

00:59:58.05
neelyquinn
So you don’t care about conditions. You seek out terrible conditions. But when you sent and when you sent choose life, it was still not great conditions. It was still pretty warm, right?

01:00:12.76
ashley
Yeah, it was 89 that day and the route bakes in the sun until you get there. And then it’s like goes in the shade like right when I would get there and warm up.

01:00:22.29
neelyquinn
The rocks like 100 degrees is perfect.

01:00:25.69
ashley
So not great tactics, but like the route honestly takes like an hour to climb if you’re going for a beta burn. And so I, it’s that, or I’m going to be like freezing waiting for other people to go because the belay is in the shade while like in the winter while the sun, the routes in the sun.

01:00:43.74
ashley
So you’re freezing for like an hour or two while other people are climbing.

01:00:46.66
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. And then that’s unmotivating. It’s true. Uh, yeah, I hear you. So the last thing I wanted to talk to you about is partnership because we talked just a little bit about before we started recording about like belay relationships, climbing with your husband, what challenges that can sometimes bring up.

01:01:12.74
neelyquinn
And I know for me, like Seth and I couldn’t climb together for years because we were our worst selves. And by we, I mean I was my worst self when I climbed with him you know because he was like a safety blanket to me. And i I didn’t treat him with as much respect as he deserved.

01:01:33.80
neelyquinn
And so I had to learn how to be a good person um when I was climbing with him. and But you know still, there there are things that can come up. So I’m curious, like what is your relationship like with Patrick in terms of your ah climbing partnership and what challenges do you have, if any?

01:01:52.68
ashley
I definitely relate to what you’re saying about like not being your best self. I think with your partner, you can easily like throw a fit or be like um just the not not the best version of yourself because you’re upset and it’s easy to like show that when you’re with your partner versus a friend where you don’t really want to cross that line and like throw a tantrum about like how you didn’t send the route.

01:02:17.44
neelyquinn
Right.

01:02:17.47
ashley
It’s embarrassing. so ah definitely relate to that and we’ve experienced that but um I think what makes us successful is just trying yeah I guess trying to like counter that and it’s not fun to climb if you act that way so by nature of that it’s um

01:02:44.82
ashley
Oh god, caught.

01:02:46.82
neelyquinn
Mmhmm.

01:02:48.09
ashley
um I don’t really know what to say for this because I feel like we both climb really well together because we’re at similar levels and have like similar perspectives about climbing because we basically learned how to climb together.

01:03:02.41
ashley
So I think we definitely have like hard times where we’re not being the best version of ourself and we’re like being we’re upset about something little. But I think overall, like I really value climbing with him.

01:03:16.60
ashley
And it’s such this like amazing part of our relationship that we’re able to like have this whole side of climbing. We’re able to have climbing together. Climbing such is such an important part of my life.

01:03:28.48
ashley
I can’t really imagine not sharing that with a partner.

01:03:31.60
neelyquinn
Hmm.

01:03:31.91
ashley
And it’s so emotional to me that I love when he’s there for like my highs or even my lows. so I think I just really value having that and like working as a team together and it’s not always perfect, but I think climbing together is like so much fun.

01:03:52.18
neelyquinn
It sounds like maybe you guys have had challenges with attitudes and, you know, being a little bit too comfortable with each other in the past, but then you realized that this is so important to you that it’s not fun when you do that.

01:04:08.22
neelyquinn
So you like changed course and stopped behaving that way. Is that right?

01:04:12.81
ashley
Yeah, that’s exactly right.

01:04:14.76
neelyquinn
Yeah. Did you guys have to have many conversations about that or was it just kind of like, I don’t like this. I’m going to change.

01:04:22.93
ashley
I think probably the latter, but also like just when we have a low point or like, okay, we got to change something, like what’s going on here? Maybe we need to like go climb with other people for a week or two and then regroup and come back. Or a lot of times if I send something, we’re at very, very similar level, so we’ll all often project to the same thing.

01:04:44.62
ashley
and sometimes when one person climbs the route before the other it gets really difficult for the person who hasn’t sent the route because they have all this pressure especially if there’s no other really routes to climb nearby. It’s like you’re going out just to support your partner on this thing and if they don’t send like it’s you know then you have to go back and in it becomes a whole thing potentially. So I think having partners who are like, okay, I’ve sent the route and Patrick hasn’t, for example, like he might need another partner to in order to stay motivated on the route and not feel like this intense pressure. He might want someone to like work out the moves and like talk about strategy with rather than me being like, I don’t know.

01:05:31.87
ashley
thirty

01:05:34.06
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. So it does. It does seem like it’s a fluid thing. Like sometimes you do take some breaks when, you know, it’s not like you guys are just perfectly out there laughing your way up roots every single time.

01:05:45.83
ashley
yeah

01:05:49.44
ashley
Sometimes, but definitely not always.

01:05:51.44
neelyquinn
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s cool. It’s really lovely. Um, I think the last question I have for you or want to last is where do you see yourself going with climbing? Like, do you have big overarching goals in this sport?

01:06:08.56
ashley
I think for me right now, I’m just really excited about like projecting and sport climbing. So having done this 13C, I realized like I can for sure do more 13+. I just did one in my anti-style and like terrible conditions. Like for sure I can do another, but it’s also like a lot of mental stress to do something that’s like feels so hard because those routes are so mentally taxing for me to overcome like that feeling of the impossible.

01:06:35.59
ashley
So I think I would be excited to do to try another 13 plus um like next year probably, but then just try and climb grades slightly lower than that.

01:06:48.73
ashley
um Faster is always.

01:06:51.17
neelyquinn
Hmm. Yeah. Do you have trips coming up or places that you are wanting to climb next?

01:06:58.49
ashley
Um, not really. Patrick is working on something at SEAL, so I’m excited to do another route up there. Um, we don’t really have any trips, but just trying to take off some of the Boulder Classic 513s, because there’s so many. And like we talked about, I’ve done some obscure routes and I’m really excited to be just climbing some classic routes now.

01:07:23.54
neelyquinn
Can I ask what you’re working on now?

01:07:25.81
ashley
Yeah, I just started Super Tusken. which is a 13B, but it’s a really long route. It’s like 35 meters or something. And with our after work sessions being so short right now, it’s been really hard to like actually get any time in on the route. So I’ve just been up there for two short after work sessions and then hoping to go back this week and maybe do it.

01:07:51.64
neelyquinn
Nice, yeah. Yeah, that’s what that’s my favorite 13B of all time.

01:07:57.50
ashley
It’s amazing. it’s I think the best route in the Flatirons, but don’t tell anyone until I do it.

01:08:02.59
neelyquinn
Yeah, right.

01:08:04.68
ashley
Just kidding.

01:08:04.99
neelyquinn
Oh, I agree, totally. um I think that’s all of my questions for you. Do you feel like we missed anything or that you want to talk about anything else?

01:08:19.59
ashley
I don’t think so. Yeah, I don’t think we missed anything.

01:08:23.18
neelyquinn
Do you have any, I’m going to put you on the spot. Do you have any advice for people who are wanting to break through into five 13 say.

01:08:34.34
ashley
I think Climb, well, I guess what I did is I climbed a lot of 512, maybe too many, but I think just having a really good base is really important and choosing something, you know, working up to 13A slowly, so making sure that you tick off some like 12 pluses. I think if you’re really inspired by a Climb, like you should definitely get on it, even if it’s too hard for you. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but I think just to set yourself up for success, it’s good to climb a good base of 512. And then when you get on your 513, maybe pick a soft one, because then you can get over that mental hump of like O13A, this like mythical number. And then when you climb another 13, it’s going to be easier because you’ve already like mentally checked off like that grade.

01:09:27.12
neelyquinn
That’s some of the best advice I’ve ever heard because a lot of times people are like, Oh, I need to do my first 13 a or my first 12 a or my first 14 a and it needs to be like the hardest one so that I’ve proven to myself in the world that I actually did a five 13 a but that actually makes sense because you’re right.

01:09:47.03
neelyquinn
That mental barrier of the new number is so big.

01:09:50.69
ashley
Yeah.

01:09:51.69
neelyquinn
Yeah. You’re so smart, Ashley.

01:09:54.31
ashley
Thank you.

01:09:55.76
neelyquinn
Um, yeah, thanks for that. And actually you didn’t totally answer. Oh, my, my overarching goal question was like, you know, plenty of people are like, I want to climb five 14 a someday. I want to climb whatever. Do you have a goal like that in five years, whatever?

01:10:15.59
ashley
I definitely used to, but I honestly don’t anymore. Um, I think just like having this struggle with climbing 13 C, like I thought I would climb 13 C four years ago. That’s why I tried it. Um, I think it just showed, it like showed to me that sometimes that doesn’t happen and also so that doesn’t matter. So what’s important is like challenging yourself in the ways that you want to challenge yourself.

01:10:42.60
ashley
And so as long as you’re doing that, like whatever you do is a success. So I don’t have big goals of like climbing fourteen five, 14 anymore. Um, but just knowing that like it’s possible and that someday I hope to, but I’m not like stuck on that.

01:11:00.05
neelyquinn
Yeah, I love that. That seems very mature, like a nice evolution.

01:11:05.66
ashley
Uh-huh.

01:11:06.72
neelyquinn
Yeah. Well, thank you. I know that this isn’t something that, you know, you necessarily wanted to do is talk publicly about your climbing.

01:11:17.03
neelyquinn
You seem a little bit private and very humble. And so I really appreciate you coming on and being vulnerable and talking about this because I think that people can learn a lot from you.

01:11:28.04
neelyquinn
So thank you.

01:11:29.16
ashley
Thanks, I think this is a good experience for me, so I feel very flattered that you invited me on.

01:11:34.24
neelyquinn
Yeah. ah Well, good luck out there. I hope Super Tuscan goes well and I hope to see you soon.

01:11:40.99
ashley
Thanks.