Transcript

00:00:02.29
neelyquinn
OK, hello, Robin. How are you doing today?

00:00:05.38
Robynne Murray
Hey, Neely, I am doing great. Thank you. Yeah. I’m looking forward to chatting with you.

00:00:09.97
neelyquinn
Yeah, for sure. And thank you so much for being vulnerable enough to you know air your climbing ah difficulties to the world. So thank you so much.

00:00:20.53
Robynne Murray
Yeah, for sure. i I have a feeling I may not be the only one who struggles with some of the things that we’re going to talk about. So yeah.

00:00:26.73
neelyquinn
Yeah, definitely not. Yeah, given our little intro. But I’ve I’ve kept our intro stuff to a minimum because I want this to be like a normal coaching session for me where I come into it like pretty blind. So why don’t you just tell me?

00:00:42.98
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:00:44.45
neelyquinn
um Usually in coaching sessions, I ask for people to give me a topic like a specific topic that they want to work on for this hour. So what do you want to work on?

00:00:53.75
Robynne Murray
Yeah, so I think one of the things that’s been a big challenge for me, especially in the last few years with my climbing, is body image and kind of feeling of self-worth and shame around my body and even sometimes how I perform as a climber. um So, you know, a lot of fear fear fear of failure comes with that too. um And I’m kind of, you know, I’ve been working on that for the last few years, kind of outside of climbing, and yet climbing still seems like a place where I get triggered quite a lot.

00:01:31.68
Robynne Murray
um So yeah, I guess that would be the kind of general topic that I’d like to discuss today and get some help with.

00:01:37.21
neelyquinn
Okay. Yeah, for sure. Alright, so what I’m hearing is you’re having some shame around body image, not feeling super great about the way that your body looks. And then also having some self worth around that like lower self worth than you want to. And that you, this is like translating into your climbing where you’re having shame about your climbing performance or just the way that your body looks in climbing. Or can you describe that more?

00:02:08.01
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think it’s interesting. I can perform well climbing and still feel shame around my body. um But when I don’t feel like I’m performing well, I am incredibly hard on myself and it feels like everything’s kind of wrong.

00:02:23.24
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:02:23.43
Robynne Murray
So um yeah, a little bit of both.

00:02:26.80
neelyquinn
so Okay, so the the performance level is a trigger for your like how bad the self image is.

00:02:34.15
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think so. um It’s been interesting because I recently sent my first couple of 13s kind of the hardest climbs I’ve done and I had this idea in my mind that like once I got to that level I would have to be happy with my body because obviously it’s strong enough to climb these things and what I’ve realized is like the day after I sent one of my recent projects I still felt the same kind of like shame around my body as I had before. And I was like, okay, so it it almost feels a little independent of climbing performance, although those days where I do feel like I perform well, definitely, you know, there’s a high there. There’s a lot of joy that comes with that.

00:03:12.56
Robynne Murray
so

00:03:13.18
neelyquinn
So you can enjoy it and be accepting of yourself for like 24 hours and then.

00:03:15.16
Robynne Murray
him 24 hours. Yeah, it’s a really good 24 hours.

00:03:18.84
neelyquinn
ah

00:03:22.04
Robynne Murray
It was so funny. i So I like recently sent a project and it was on my second go of the day. And I ah I’ve been working on it for so long that instead of like just taking the rest of the day off, I was like, oh, we should go kilter so that I feel sore tomorrow so that I feel a sense of accomplishment. And I was like, whoa, that’s so messed up.

00:03:43.18
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:03:44.61
Robynne Murray
But yeah.

00:03:45.51
neelyquinn
Yeah. I mean. I, again, I don’t think you’re alone in that at all. And this sense of accomplishment that we’re constantly striving for is so it’s like what makes a lot of climbers, climbers like continue to strive in climbing. So I think this is all really common, but I want to get clear on what we’re going to work on in this session.

00:04:06.01
Robynne Murray
Totally.

00:04:12.63
neelyquinn
So what would be the goal of this hour together?

00:04:18.20
Robynne Murray
who I would love to have some ideas of how to talk to myself or tactics around when these feelings of shame come up. Um, because often they come up and I have a really hard time letting go of them and kind of moving on, I get kind of wrapped up. Um, so yeah, just, I’d like to learn some ways that I can work with those feelings, um, and become a little bit less attached to them.

00:04:48.64
neelyquinn
OK, yeah, that is totally reasonable. And I really like that answer because you’re not like, I want to stop feeling these things because that’s like a life, a lifetime of undoing.

00:04:58.05
Robynne Murray
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:05:00.94
neelyquinn
But you do want to at least start to approach these feelings a little bit differently and more consciously.

00:05:01.06
Robynne Murray
Totally.

00:05:07.83
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:05:09.70
neelyquinn
OK.

00:05:10.50
Robynne Murray
Yeah, it’s something that I’ve been dealing with my whole life even before I climbed and it’s been getting better for sure, but it’s still there. So I know it’s not just going to disappear overnight, but I also know that it can get better if I work on it. I just need to figure out how.

00:05:24.97
neelyquinn
Yeah. Well, and I guess one question is how equipped do you feel right now to deal with it? And where do you want to get to?

00:05:35.61
Robynne Murray
Yeah, it’s interesting. It kind of comes and goes. um Some days I feel quite resourced. I have a pretty good meditation um habit and I am pretty good at positive self-talk when I’m not hungry, tired, stressed, which isn’t that often. So you know most days I am less resourced than I know I could be. um So I think it’s figuring out how to work with it on those days where You know, a I am maybe a little more tired or stressed or never.

00:06:09.46
neelyquinn
Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. Okay, that makes sense. So my next question is, why is this important to you that we work on this and figure out ways to talk to yourself when this comes up?

00:06:26.49
Robynne Murray
Well, that’s a great question. um I love climbing. It brings me so much joy and a lot of fulfillment and just, I don’t know, a lot of connection as well. And it makes me so sad when I leave the crag feeling bad about myself and sad. You know, I’ve had days where I’ll climb pretty well and yet, you know, there’ll be kind of other females at the crag who I’m comparing myself to who are more petite or stronger or whatever.

00:06:55.88
neelyquinn
Mm.

00:06:59.25
Robynne Murray
And also I’ll walk back from the crag like in tears because I feel like I’m just not you know worthy or I’m not good enough. And it totally disrupts the feeling of joy that I feel around climbing. So yeah, I just want to be able to feel more of the good things or really embrace those positive feelings and let go of the ones that are less helpful.

00:07:24.40
neelyquinn
Yeah, of course you do. Man, just hearing about that, it makes me so sad. Like, that is so sad that that is what you’re left with.

00:07:32.58
Robynne Murray
It’s so sad.

00:07:33.91
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:07:35.00
Robynne Murray
Yeah, totally. And it’s, it’s rough for, you know, my partner who’s there like soothing me and kind of being such, you know, an amazing emotional support. But like, we should be celebrating these awesome days we have at the crag. Not sad because my body looks different maybe than these other people I’m comparing myself to. Because at the end of the day, like, it doesn’t really matter. And I know that, but I can’t feel that.

00:08:02.49
neelyquinn
Yeah, so where do you think you need to begin and to to unravel this and figure out how to speak to yourself?

00:08:13.12
Robynne Murray
That’s a hard question. Um, I think a lot of it, I mean, there’s a lot of thoughts that happen, um, things that come up in my mind that I either latch onto or sometimes I’m able to let go of. So I feel like starting with my thoughts is probably where I’ll have the most success. But, um, yeah, I think comparing to others and Um, just generally having a little bit more self-acceptance, but I don’t really know where to start to do that. Like it’s easy to say, I would love to start with my thoughts, but like, how do I actually get to that?

00:08:57.38
neelyquinn
Well, we can. We can start with your thoughts about it. So I’m hearing a couple of things and I want to make sure that we focus on the right thing. So one is I compare myself to these other females at the crag who are smaller and I compare myself to other females who are stronger.

00:09:17.30
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

00:09:18.14
neelyquinn
And which is it that’s most triggering to you that you want to focus on right now, or is it both?

00:09:23.60
Robynne Murray
That’s a great question. um I think it’s more size, my body weight is the thing that I kind of have a hard time with. And um I actually find a lot of joy watching people who are stronger than me. I have a lot of female friends who are a lot stronger than me and I really enjoy that. So it’s it’s definitely more about, I think, size and feeling maybe like I don’t fit in or like their my body is different. um Sometimes I even feel like when I am climbing with, you know, these strong females, that there’s this sense of shame around like, oh, well, if I just lost weight, maybe I could climb as well as them.

00:10:03.01
neelyquinn
Mm

00:10:03.52
Robynne Murray
um And I worry that they see that and think, oh, you know, she doesn’t care enough to lose weight. So, you know, she must not really want this are or something like that.

00:10:16.83
neelyquinn
Yeah, and this is the thing that I’ve been noticing so much with climbers in general and all of my clients is that, and I think that we actually talked about this before, is that it all usually comes down to the sense of belonging that you don’t think you’re going to have because of some thing about you.

00:10:39.21
Robynne Murray
Right. here

00:10:40.74
neelyquinn
Because what I heard you say is, I’m not going to fit in. I don’t fit in.

00:10:44.19
Robynne Murray
the

00:10:45.28
neelyquinn
They are going to think bad things about me that I’m not respectable or whatever that came down to. And so when I say that, what comes up for you?

00:10:55.72
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s totally it, right? I think yeah we all want to feel that sense of community and feel like we are respected and valued and liked. um

00:11:06.28
neelyquinn
Yes.

00:11:07.92
Robynne Murray
And it’s really interesting because I have a lot of really amazing climbing partners and friends in the community who I talked to about this stuff and they’ll tell me this, you know, it doesn’t matter as long as we’re, you know, having a good conversation or having fun or whatever it is, like that’s more important than what we look like. But no matter how many examples of that I have, I still. have those thoughts and those kind of the negative thoughts and the worries about what other people think. So it’s almost like even though I have like a lot of data that suggests otherwise, I still can’t really convince myself that I’m okay or that I belong.

00:11:46.46
neelyquinn
Yeah, and that is so frustrating, probably.

00:11:50.54
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah, it’s brutal.

00:11:53.46
neelyquinn
You’re like, I know on an intellectual level that this is not the case.

00:11:57.89
Robynne Murray
Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. And i I always struggle with that, like kind of knowing something intellectually versus feeling it. And yeah, for me, sometimes it feels like there’s a gap between intellect and like feelings that if I could just bridge that gap, would I would feel kind of more whole.

00:12:15.38
neelyquinn
Yeah, that’s huge.

00:12:16.39
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:12:17.75
neelyquinn
I think a lot of people feel that way. I definitely can relate myself. So if you knew what you needed to do in order to bridge that gap between intellect and feeling, what would it be?

00:12:33.51
Robynne Murray
I think probably holding myself with more lightness and self-compassion, worrying less about what other people think,

00:12:45.46
Robynne Murray
um generally talking to myself in a more positive way. and kind of not almost like not letting myself get away with these kind of bad habits of negative self-talk um that are pretty prevalent for me um but like i said yeah those are all things i would love to do but i i don’t know how i guess

00:13:07.64
neelyquinn
hu and Yeah. and Okay. So there were three things there that are really big. You said holding yourself more lightly and with more compassion. talking to yourself more positively and holding yourself accountable for that and not caring as much about what others think.

00:13:25.95
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:13:30.82
neelyquinn
Okay, which of those things do you think is the most important?

00:13:39.24
Robynne Murray
Um, probably worrying about what other people think, um, because I think that’s what triggers some of the negative thoughts and also makes it hard or blocks me from having the more positive thoughts.

00:13:43.18
neelyquinn
who

00:13:51.89
neelyquinn
For sure.

00:13:52.19
Robynne Murray
Um, Yeah, so I feel like that’s probably, that would probably be a good place to start because if I was comparing less or worrying less, I might have a little more space for the other things.

00:14:03.80
neelyquinn
Do you have any idea where this came from? And we’re obviously not going to like psychoanalyze your youth, but can you do you know why you care so much about what others think, especially about your body?

00:14:19.35
Robynne Murray
Um, I don’t know exactly why or where it started, but as a kid, I was kind of a chubbier little girl and got teased a little bit for that. Um, and just, you know, generally didn’t feel like I fit in very well in school. Um, you know, I wasn’t one of like the cool kids. I was kind of nerdy. Um, even though I really wanted to be cool, so I tried way too hard. Um, but I think that, Growing up, I just, yeah, I never really felt very settled in my body and I felt like others looked at me and sometimes even commented on the fact that my body was wrong because I was chubbier when I was younger. um And I think that’s just stuck with me. Like, I think that idea that people look at me and think something about my body, even if they don’t say it out loud, um it still feels like

00:15:15.95
Robynne Murray
Like I’m always assuming people must be thinking something because in the past they had, um even though, you know, I’m a very different person than I was back then, but yeah.

00:15:24.62
neelyquinn
Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. I mean, those things really stick with us. And again, it comes back to that belonging like you didn’t fit in.

00:15:30.14
Robynne Murray
isn Yeah.

00:15:33.59
neelyquinn
You were teased and bullied. There was something in quotes wrong with you. um And this was made vocal and in probably a very shaming way, whether it was subtle or really overt. Right.

00:15:46.65
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:15:47.48
neelyquinn
It’s like, yeah, it’s like traumatizing, especially to a child.

00:15:47.49
Robynne Murray
Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:50.53
Robynne Murray
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I’ve kind of recently been unpacking these kinds of things a little more in therapy and I’m like, wow. Yeah. so There was a lot of damage done when I was younger, just with other, what other people would say or how it would be teased. Um, yeah.

00:16:05.73
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, how did you feel when you were teased?

00:16:11.27
Robynne Murray
Oh, terrible. I was incredibly anxious as a kid. Um, I mean, I still suffer from anxiety now, but I, I would be terrified to go to school. I would have extreme anxiety about like, you know, going to to school events or social events. Um, yeah, I really struggled as a kid, um, with those feelings.

00:16:34.17
neelyquinn
Yeah, that’s awful. That’s so sad.

00:16:37.55
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:39.09
neelyquinn
and

00:16:39.17
Robynne Murray
I know. I feel so bad for a little like young version of myself.

00:16:42.23
neelyquinn
Well, yeah, I mean, that’s a great question.

00:16:42.95
Robynne Murray
I just want to give her a hug.

00:16:46.71
neelyquinn
Like, but what would you do or say if you could talk to her?

00:16:52.84
Robynne Murray
I would tell her that she’s perfect just as she is, and things are gonna change, like nothing static. um People are gonna love her for who she is, not because of how she looks. um That there’s so much more to like her being in the world than just her body. And there’s so much more she can like contribute and and feel outside of just how her body looks. But um yeah, it’s interesting. When I think about it, I almost have like more of ah an emotion, like ah a feeling of like just wanting to give her a hug. Like I would probably soothe her a lot and try and just, you know, tell her she’s going to be okay.

00:17:34.76
neelyquinn
Yeah, why is that? Why is that so important for you to do physically soothe her?

00:17:41.19
Robynne Murray
I think that’s kind of how I feel safe, even as an adult is just, you know, like kind of positive affirmations and like kind of either touch or hugging or whatever. That’s just kind of what makes me feel safe. so

00:18:01.91
neelyquinn
Yeah, so you could imagine if you could be in the same room as this little girl, you would be telling her that she’s loved, that she’s so much more than just her body, and that her body is perfect just the way that it is, and that she has so much to contribute to the world and that people love her and are going to continue to love her, and it will get better. And you would be like holding her and hugging her and soothing her.

00:18:28.17
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:18:30.62
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:18:32.57
neelyquinn
And when you think about that, like how does that feel?

00:18:32.64
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:18:36.90
Robynne Murray
Very kind of warm and peaceful, I guess. It’s a very um kind feeling. I think I would also try and help her look at her body in terms of what it can do and what it’s capable of. Um, instead of what it looks like. So, you know, like look, your little legs are running around all over the place and to try and, um, yeah, focus more on the positive things that are, that that her body is enabling her to do.

00:19:15.94
neelyquinn
Yeah, that’s huge. What a different message than what she was sent.

00:19:21.38
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah.

00:19:23.82
neelyquinn
Yeah. Okay, so when you feel all these things, you said that you felt warmth and kindness. Can you imagine leaving the crag feeling like that? No matter who was around?

00:19:37.05
Robynne Murray
That would be amazing.

00:19:38.67
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:19:40.71
Robynne Murray
Yeah, that would be wonderful. And some days I do feel like that, especially days where I’m with friends and we’re connecting well and having good conversation. um Yeah, there are days that feel like that, but also a lot that don’t.

00:19:59.42
neelyquinn
And would you say that those days have been increasing over time as you’ve been a climber?

00:20:07.81
Robynne Murray
Um, you know, it’s interesting. I think when you start a new activity, so when I first started climbing, the learning curve is really steep. So I feel like you progress really quickly. And that lights me up, like that feeling of like accomplishment in growth and, um, in progression. So I think earlier on in my climbing days, I felt a lot more days like that, where I was like, oh, I climbed my first 10A. Cool. Oh, now it goes really quickly, like early on.

00:20:40.62
neelyquinn
Mmhmm, yeah.

00:20:42.21
Robynne Murray
And then you I’ve been climbing for, I think, six years. And it kind of starts to level off and plateau more. And I think that the games get but slightly harder to make. And I think as that’s been happening, I’ve been having a harder time. um with the negative self-talk and those feelings because, you know, not every day you leave the crag now, am I feeling like, oh yeah, like accomplish something or there’s growth here. Like, even though there probably is, it’s, it’s a lot harder to identify.

00:21:12.46
neelyquinn
Right. For sure. So you’re resting less on your accomplishments now because there are fewer and farther between.

00:21:19.62
Robynne Murray
And yet I’m still putting as much emphasis on them as I probably ever have, or as much, you know, import on them.

00:21:23.33
neelyquinn
Right. Exactly. And I think that in climbing that is the trap that we fall into. The people, those of us who have anxiety and shame about our climbing, that’s why.

00:21:36.33
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:21:37.90
neelyquinn
And so then you’re being triggered by other people’s bodies because you want accomplishments and you think that your body’s holding you back from doing that.

00:21:38.04
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:21:46.30
neelyquinn
And it’s just this cycle.

00:21:48.81
Robynne Murray
Yeah, totally. Yeah. There’s so many days where I’ve had the thought of like, you know, if I just lost like five or 10 pounds, this climb probably wouldn’t feel that hard. And that’s such a hard feeling to be with because That’s within my capabilities, you know, I have control over what I eat and how I exercise. So there’s a lot of shame around not being able to do that. Like if I really cared, wouldn’t I, you know, eat less or exercise more, do whatever I had to do to lose that weight?

00:22:20.65
Robynne Murray
But I think the problem is, even if I did that, there’d be the next thing that would feel hard that then I would have to do something else for, lose more weight or get stronger or whatever. Like there’s always going to be something that’s going to feel hard. So I think that would be a slippery slope to be on. And I, um, I had an eating disorder for most of my twenties and I just can’t really bring myself to like, you know, do those behaviors that I was doing back then that enabled me to lose weight quickly.

00:22:53.68
neelyquinn
hu

00:22:54.09
Robynne Murray
So even though I have all the shame around it, I can’t fall back into those patterns that, that actually would cause me to lose weight. So I kind of feel a little stuck.

00:23:05.07
neelyquinn
Yeah, you’re kind of resisting reality, which your reality is that you do not want to do the things that it requires for you to lose weight.

00:23:14.55
Robynne Murray
Yeah, exactly.

00:23:15.07
neelyquinn
Right?

00:23:15.29
Robynne Murray
And I love food. I want to be able to eat a piece of cheesecake when I want to. Like, that brings me a lot of joy. So, yeah.

00:23:22.83
neelyquinn
Yeah, so there that that right there is something that you could just remind yourself of regularly. And you maybe you do, but it’s like clearly climbing performance, because it seems like you do believe that if you lost five or 10 pounds, things some things at least would feel easier.

00:23:43.74
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:23:44.30
neelyquinn
But climbing, those accomplishments are not worth the effort to you to do that.

00:23:44.46
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:23:50.98
Robynne Murray
I guess. Yeah. I mean, when you say it out loud, I’m like, Ooh, but surely it is because I care so much about my climbing, but it must not because I’m not, you know, I’m not willing to give up my, my treats. So yeah.

00:24:07.76
neelyquinn
Well, maybe we could be even more pointed there. Like I just said it out loud, but could you say it out loud? Like it’s not worth it to me and really, you know, spell that out.

00:24:18.60
Robynne Murray
Ooh, yeah, i I don’t know if I believe it though. Like I think that if if I had a little more willpower or you know strength of mind that maybe i i I would think it was worth it. But let me think about this. Maybe it’s easy to say that out loud, but actually when it comes down to it, when I was struggling with an eating disorder. Like I was not happy and and my body was not happy. I wasn’t healthy. And there were a lot of things that I didn’t feel like I could do. Um, whereas now my body feels pretty strong and pretty healthy. So, you know, I can go out and have a full day at the crag and have mostly have a lot of energy and maybe that’s not worth giving up and maybe, um,

00:25:13.76
Robynne Murray
Yeah, maybe restricting and and all of those things would actually hurt my climbing performance because I wouldn’t be able to show up feeling healthy. So in that way, yeah, it’s not worth it.

00:25:26.63
neelyquinn
Are you sure?

00:25:30.50
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think so. I sound really sure, don’t I?

00:25:35.98
neelyquinn
And this is, I think, very important so be to know for sure that at least right now, no, you don’t want to do that.

00:25:36.18
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:25:39.69
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:25:45.68
neelyquinn
I don’t want to do that.

00:25:48.47
Robynne Murray
You know, I almost feel like my body knows that and yet my mind is still like, like, Oh, I don’t know. Maybe if we just, yeah. So maybe I need to say it out loud more and more to like kind of get my mind caught up with, with what my body seems to know.

00:26:03.61
neelyquinn
hu Well, what do you need to say to yourself?

00:26:07.80
Robynne Murray
Um, that. My climbing performance is not worth sacrificing my health, and it’s also not worth sacrificing some of the joy that I have around food and treats.

00:26:22.17
neelyquinn
Yes. How do you feel when you say that?

00:26:27.81
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think it checks out. I think it’s interesting because that aligns with how I behave, but it doesn’t align with like the shame that I feel around it.

00:26:35.27
neelyquinn
huh

00:26:40.16
neelyquinn
Yeah. And that makes sense because you believe very strongly that you do not belong because you look different. And so of course there’s going to be a part of you that’s like, but you could do something about this.

00:26:47.60
Robynne Murray
Right.

00:26:51.49
neelyquinn
This is so important to us.

00:26:52.03
Robynne Murray
Right. Yeah, exactly. If we’re going to be having all these hard feelings, like why don’t you go fix it?

00:26:58.20
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:26:58.53
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

00:26:58.90
neelyquinn
Yeah. There’s a real big disconnect there.

00:27:00.28
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:27:01.79
neelyquinn
You’re fighting with yourself constantly.

00:27:04.03
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

00:27:05.05
neelyquinn
yeah

00:27:05.61
Robynne Murray
And I think the truth is, like, even if I were to lose weight, I don’t know if I’d be satisfied. Like, there’s always something else that I could do, you know, I could get stronger. I could lose even more weight. Like it’s, it just doesn’t feel like it would be a sustainable way to address wanting to perform well in climbing.

00:27:24.04
neelyquinn
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And there’s no guarantee that it would improve your climbing.

00:27:31.73
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah. I just sent my project to like kind of feeling the heaviest that I felt in the wild. Actually, that was really weird. I, I was very surprised. Um, when I like weighed myself, I was like, oh, okay. So maybe these two things don’t correlate all that well.

00:27:52.34
neelyquinn
Exactly. I want you to scream that from the mountaintops.

00:27:56.36
Robynne Murray
Yeah, right. I know, I think that’s a really interesting lesson for everyone. And i’ve you know I’ve heard other climbers say the same thing, that they’ve climbed their hardest or strongest when they’ve been a little heavier and there’s probably something to do with like energy availability and um yeah, just generally feeling healthy but I was pretty surprised.

00:28:18.76
neelyquinn
So the difference between you now and you when you were ah restricting calories, like, can you describe how you feel mentally and physically different?

00:28:25.36
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:28:34.08
Robynne Murray
and I think that physically, I have more energy. um I’m not, you know, when I was restricting a lot. you know, I would have that like bonky, dizzy feeling like most of the day. am And, you know, I couldn’t think clearly. um I was in university and just like, you know, I would struggle to actually pay attention in class. And then of course, you know, I would go bingy later once it got to a breaking point so that it wasn’t, you know, and then I’d feel awful. I’d feel really like too heavy. And so it was a really, I guess,

00:29:16.09
Robynne Murray
Yeah, confusing feeling.

00:29:19.53
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:29:20.32
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:29:20.87
neelyquinn
Yeah, you’re kind of on a roller coaster there because you emotionally you’re like, oh, i’m I’m doing good.

00:29:23.28
Robynne Murray
Totally. Mm-hmm.

00:29:27.10
neelyquinn
I’m doing good. I’m restricting.

00:29:28.20
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm.

00:29:28.50
neelyquinn
And then you just break and you binge and then you have this anxiety and shame and sadness.

00:29:31.18
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:29:33.78
neelyquinn
And in the meantime, you just feel kind of physically crappy all the time.

00:29:34.18
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:29:37.11
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah, and I didn’t have a lot of energy. um And I wasn’t as active in my 20s. You know, I didn’t climb then. um I did some hiking, did some running, but like I didn’t, I guess, need as much energy as I do now for a lot of the activities I do now. So maybe I didn’t feel it as strongly, but I know if I were to do that now, there’s no way. like I couldn’t go you know do a big alpine day and not feel myself well. like It just wouldn’t go over well.

00:30:05.85
neelyquinn
Right. Yeah. And how important is it for you to be able to go out and do a big Alpine day or go to a project and try really hard or go to the gym and train really you know effectively? How important is that?

00:30:18.42
Robynne Murray
Oh yeah. Oh, that’s everything. That’s like, that’s what I love about climbing is either having those big days where you get back and you’re kind of wrecked, but so happy. We’re like training really hard, pushing my body. Um, yeah, that’s what I, I love kind of seeing where my limits are and kind of poking into those as much as I can.

00:30:39.39
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:30:39.54
Robynne Murray
Um, so yeah, if I wasn’t fueled and couldn’t do that, I, that would be really sad.

00:30:44.26
neelyquinn
Yes. And when you were saying all those things, you just lit up like you’re, it clearly brings you so much joy to do these things.

00:30:50.35
Robynne Murray
yeah Yeah. Yeah, it really does. Yeah, it was, it’s, it’s been an interesting, like maybe six months or so in my climbing because I finally allowed myself to like fully lean into a training program and trying really hard and just seeing you know, what I was capable of if I really focused and tried not to have too many other distractions. You know, we still did like a week long ski tour in Canada and ice climbed and like all these other things through the winter, but I was super dedicated to the the training all winter. And it was so cool to feel like I was allowed to just lean into that and like chase that feeling of bliss that I get when I’m like, you know, pushing my body and trying hard and

00:31:43.52
Robynne Murray
Um, yeah, really embracing that.

00:31:46.28
neelyquinn
yeah and Yeah, it sounds like you had some really positive emotions about that.

00:31:46.48
Robynne Murray
So that was really cool.

00:31:51.47
Robynne Murray
Oh yeah. It was, I always feel really good when I’m, um, when I feel like I’m making progress or, you know, I’m working hard on something, even outside of climbing, like that’s, my whole life has been about like, you know, setting my mind to something and then working as hard as I possibly can to get, but get there. Like that really drives me.

00:32:12.22
neelyquinn
um Sounds like this is one of the most important parts of your life.

00:32:17.31
Robynne Murray
It is. And it’s also a part that I’m just recently kind of coming to terms with because there’s also this weird dialogue around like, oh, why can’t you just go climb for fun? Like, why do you always have to be trying hard or training hard? Can’t you just go and like, you know, climb easy stuff for fun? And there’s almost like some shame around, um, like wanting to be working really hard a lot.

00:32:49.23
Robynne Murray
And I ah had to sort of like reckon with that and be like, no, you know what, it’s okay that I’m a really driven person, and that trying hard or working hard really like lights me up.

00:33:02.28
neelyquinn
Hmm.

00:33:02.61
Robynne Murray
um But it yeah, it was a process because I did, there was shame around like, oh, some of my friends really love just going in like climbing, easy climbing all day. And like, I love that too. And there’s definitely a place for that, but I also need the like pushing myself physically too. So um yeah, it’s been interesting.

00:33:24.10
neelyquinn
Yeah. And that seems like a really important layer to have gotten through already because now that it makes it even more of a sure thing that this, your ability to do those things is very important to you.

00:33:28.28
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm.

00:33:39.61
neelyquinn
And so this, I think is what you will lean back on.

00:33:39.66
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:33:43.91
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:33:43.92
neelyquinn
when you’re leaving the crag and you’re comparing yourself to other females who look different than you would do and you’re like you know what this is who I am and what my body looks like and I’m unwilling to do anything different.

00:33:49.89
Robynne Murray
and

00:33:56.10
neelyquinn
There are other layers that and we can get to them in a sec here but that seems like the most foundational to me but what do you think?

00:33:58.29
Robynne Murray
me Yeah.

00:34:03.05
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah. And that even like you know even in the body that I currently have, I’m going to show up and I’m going to try as hard as I can or have as much fun as I can or whatever it is that we’re doing that day. like i I can do it in this body. you know Maybe I can’t climb 514, but like I can belay my friend on that and have a great day.

00:34:21.94
neelyquinn
Yes.

00:34:27.63
neelyquinn
Well, yet.

00:34:28.08
Robynne Murray
So yeah.

00:34:28.72
neelyquinn
I mean, you probably, like you might be able to climb 514 in this body.

00:34:31.45
Robynne Murray
Maybe.

00:34:32.28
neelyquinn
Who knows?

00:34:32.51
Robynne Murray
Maybe someday, yeah.

00:34:33.82
neelyquinn
Yeah. But the important word that I just heard you say was, even in this body, I can go out and try hard and do things.

00:34:35.83
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:34:46.05
neelyquinn
What does it sound like to you when I say that?

00:34:49.52
Robynne Murray
It sounds apologetic.

00:34:51.47
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:34:52.40
Robynne Murray
It sounds sort of like, oh, well, story for my body, but I’m still gonna have fun or try hard.

00:34:56.78
neelyquinn
like Exactly.

00:34:57.56
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:34:58.26
neelyquinn
Sorry for my body.

00:35:00.54
Robynne Murray
may

00:35:01.48
neelyquinn
How do you think you could put that differently?

00:35:11.06
Robynne Murray
I could just leave the first part off and just say I’m gonna show up and try hard and have fun.

00:35:13.42
neelyquinn
Yeah. Because

00:35:21.12
Robynne Murray
um Because I’m gonna fuel my body well and I’m going to hi enjoy enjoy the food I’m gonna eat and Um, try not to be too hard on myself about that.

00:35:40.30
neelyquinn
Um, I was going a little bit in a different direction. I like that too, but it’s like, I’m going to go out there and I’m going to try hard and have fun because this is important to me.

00:35:42.72
Robynne Murray
Hmm.

00:35:49.80
neelyquinn
This is one of the most important things in my life.

00:35:52.91
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah. I like that.

00:35:55.22
neelyquinn
That’s it. I’m going to, it’s just like I, it’s not, my body isn’t separate from I it’s just, I am going out there and

00:36:03.67
Robynne Murray
Right.

00:36:06.26
Robynne Murray
who Yeah, it almost doesn’t say anything at all about my body, which I think is important.

00:36:10.32
neelyquinn
Exactly.

00:36:11.80
Robynne Murray
like I don’t think we need to like qualify our experiences by what our body looks like on the day that we do something. but

00:36:17.80
neelyquinn
Yeah. Because and and sometimes it’s easier to see it from like an outsider’s view. So if you were at the crack and you saw a woman there who had a I don’t even know what your body looks like, but like that was in your mind different than the standard female climber body, which whatever that means. how How would you feel about that person?

00:36:46.39
Robynne Murray
I think it would depend a lot on the person. Like if they’re having fun, trying hard, um like generally a good person, then I think that’s great. um I who have to fight myself a little bit because there is judgment there for sure. like When I look at other people, I judge other people too, the way that I judge myself. Maybe not as harshly. Well, definitely not as harshly. But I think that our society is so um wrapped up in what people look like that it’s like it’s become second nature to pass judgments on people’s bodies. So the question you just asked me like,

00:37:32.31
Robynne Murray
I had to like work to get past that initial little judgment and then be like, no, of course. Like this is great. Like if that person is having fun and trying hard or whatever the things are that they value, like that’s, they should have every, um, you know, every right to be there and having as much fun as anyone else.

00:37:53.75
neelyquinn
What if they’re not having fun? What if they’re not trying hard?

00:37:56.86
Robynne Murray
Hmm. Yeah. I don’t think that shouldn’t change anything, I guess. like That’s their experience. It’s really funny.

00:38:03.46
neelyquinn
Right.

00:38:04.06
Robynne Murray
I’m like, ooh, well, then, in that case, no. Yeah. Each to their own. like I guess the they can make a choice about how they want to approach their day, and I shouldn’t be passing any judgment on them.

00:38:20.01
neelyquinn
Right. I mean, it’s not whether you should or shouldn’t, you don’t need to like.

00:38:25.08
Robynne Murray
Yeah, great.

00:38:26.49
neelyquinn
and nobody needs you.

00:38:26.73
Robynne Murray
What does it add?

00:38:27.59
neelyquinn
Yeah, exactly. So, and I’m not trying to like school you on how to think about people, but I am trying to get you to see

00:38:33.89
Robynne Murray
Mm

00:38:35.98
neelyquinn
how others might think of you because we are all socialized and brainwashed to think that there is this in quotes, perfect female body.

00:38:39.25
Robynne Murray
hmm.

00:38:45.87
neelyquinn
And if we are not embodying that body, there’s something wrong with us. And we’ve seen it since the day we were born in magazines, TV, radio, out of our parents mouths, everything. So like you said, it is almost impossible to not have those thoughts because we are brainwashed to have them.

00:39:04.74
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:39:05.81
neelyquinn
Can you accept that about yourself and me and everyone else that has this?

00:39:10.81
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah, I guess if those thoughts are something that are going to come up, maybe it’s less about, you know, the fact that those thoughts that don’t make you a good or bad person, but like, maybe what you do with them is what matters.

00:39:28.60
neelyquinn
who

00:39:28.92
Robynne Murray
You know, um,

00:39:30.45
neelyquinn
Right, because as a child, as a child, we don’t have the like frontal cortex or whatever it is that like makes us not say terrible things to each other. And so you were bullied, but adults aren’t generally bullying you.

00:39:43.05
Robynne Murray
right Mm-hmm.

00:39:47.80
neelyquinn
They’re they’re like considering you more as a person because we’re adults.

00:39:48.04
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm.

00:39:52.40
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Totally. And, like, the so weird thing is it really doesn’t affect me when anyone else thinks about me as their own business, and it doesn’t really have any bearing on me. And I know that intellectually and yet there’s still that worry there. It’s like, oh, what if they think like, cool, climbs well for a chubby girl or whatever it is that is in my head. But like, who cares if they think that it’s not like they’re going to say that out loud to me.

00:40:26.15
Robynne Murray
So I’ll never know what they’re really thinking.

00:40:27.82
neelyquinn
Well, what is, well, yeah, I mean, what is the worst that would happen if everyone you knew thought that.

00:40:28.52
Robynne Murray
So I don’t know why it matters so much.

00:40:36.86
neelyquinn
Everyone you came across.

00:40:39.44
Robynne Murray
I would feel so much shame. It almost feels like I’m letting people down. Like if they think that it means I’m not trying hard enough or I don’t care enough.

00:40:47.23
neelyquinn
o And why do you have to try hard or care to be accepted?

00:40:58.77
Robynne Murray
That’s a good question. I really think our community sort of values, people caring a lot about their climbing performance or trying really hard. it It seems like, at least that’s some of the messages that I get are like, um you know, if if you’re not like willing to give up your whole life for this next send, like, what are you doing?

00:41:18.82
neelyquinn
Absolutely.

00:41:26.26
neelyquinn
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. OK, let me make it more granular. If I came up to you at the crack and we didn’t know each other and I saw you climbing and I came up to you and I was like, hey, I think that you’re a little bit chubby and I don’t think you were trying very hard and I don’t want to see you again and I don’t want to be friends with you.

00:41:44.92
Robynne Murray
Oh my god, that’s so mean.

00:41:47.11
neelyquinn
Yeah.

00:41:48.20
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:41:48.25
neelyquinn
How would you feel?

00:41:49.64
Robynne Murray
Oh, terrible. I mean, that would be devastating. That’s like my biggest fear.

00:41:56.92
neelyquinn
Right. That is your biggest fear. And what does it say about me that I would say that? Not just say that, just think it. what What does it say about me?

00:42:07.25
Robynne Murray
Yeah. I mean, you’re probably not someone I would want to be friends with anyway, if that’s what you’re going to say to me.

00:42:14.27
neelyquinn
Yes.

00:42:14.63
Robynne Murray
So yeah, I think snarky me would be like, well, thanks. I guess I dodged a bullet there, but like deep down inside that would just kill me.

00:42:24.10
neelyquinn
Okay, so that I think is the cultivation of self worth that needs to be there is like, no, you don’t want to be friends with a person like me who would say that you don’t even want to belong in a group that I belong to.

00:42:36.50
Robynne Murray
Right.

00:42:42.13
Robynne Murray
Pray.

00:42:42.27
neelyquinn
Because it’s not okay. It’s not okay.

00:42:44.62
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:42:45.21
neelyquinn
It’s not the kind of people that you want to associate with be loved by love, you know,

00:42:50.13
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:42:50.82
neelyquinn
And that’s what this all comes down to, right?

00:42:51.24
Robynne Murray
Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:53.15
neelyquinn
Is the, the need to belong everywhere because you were traumatized as a kid that you were not, that you didn’t belong and you were scared to go where you were supposed to go every day, which was school or social events or anything.

00:42:57.13
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:43:07.00
neelyquinn
And now you have that same fear, like, Oh, if they start saying this stuff to me, I don’t belong and I’m going to be scared to like even go out climbing, like not an irrational way, but you know,

00:43:16.70
Robynne Murray
Great. Yeah, as opposed to like, you know, using my own, like, judgment to decide whether or not that person is someone I want to be friends with, or that community is a community I want to be part of, and then deciding whether or not their opinion of me matters. It’s just like a blanket, like, everyone must like me, and if they don’t, like, uh oh, I’m in trouble.

00:43:34.60
neelyquinn
Yes.

00:43:39.91
neelyquinn
Yes, exactly. I just had a conversation with my child self where I was like, Neely, you like as a 12 year old, because I got bullied and exiled and we all did and whatever. And I just want to say to her, you don’t need those people. They’re kind of dicks. Like, go find some different friends who actually love you and aren’t going to do this stuff to you.

00:43:58.42
Robynne Murray
Yeah!

00:44:04.92
Robynne Murray
Totally.

00:44:05.14
neelyquinn
And that’s what we’re not taught ever.

00:44:06.10
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:44:07.68
neelyquinn
We’re like, you need to fit in.

00:44:07.92
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:44:09.41
neelyquinn
you know What clothes do you need to fit in? like what And so that’s why we don’t have this self-worth is because we don’t know how to have it.

00:44:11.91
Robynne Murray
here

00:44:18.94
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:44:19.64
neelyquinn
So it’s more about, yeah, like who do you who is worthy of you?

00:44:24.35
Robynne Murray
Right, yeah, who do I choose to like want to be in community with?

00:44:30.65
neelyquinn
Yes.

00:44:31.38
Robynne Murray
That’s such an interesting point because, yeah, I had an experience um a couple weeks ago at a crag where there was this kind of group of like, broly bros, like just not a group I really wanted to be around. And yet I still found myself like, oh, I hope they think I’m climbing well. Like I hope they think I like look okay. Like I was still worried about what they thought, even though I clearly really didn’t even i wish they weren’t even there. Like it was not a pleasant experience interacting with them, but it still mattered what they thought.

00:45:05.20
neelyquinn
Yeah, of course it mattered, especially as a female, you want to be pleasing to men and do you want to accommodate men and you want to make them happy. First of all, for your safety and second of all, because you want to be sexually attractive to them because that’s what we’re brainwashed to think we need to do from the moment we’re born.

00:45:23.94
Robynne Murray
Totally.

00:45:26.01
neelyquinn
So like you tell me, how do we stop this?

00:45:26.60
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:45:30.46
neelyquinn
How do we stop these thoughts?

00:45:33.68
neelyquinn
How do we have more self-worth in these moments?

00:45:36.66
Robynne Murray
I think having, having some of the ideas we just talked about, like in my back pocket, that when I’m in a situation like that, I can remind myself like, Hey, like the, these people aren’t people that I really necessarily want to be in community with, like, I don’t need to care what they think. And the people that I do want to be in community with, like, it’s weird because in some way, like, I also didn’t need to care what they think because I can trust that they’re my friends and they love me. Like, so either way, it doesn’t really serve me to care.

00:46:15.10
Robynne Murray
Um, but I think the part where, you know, if I can be discerning about the people that matter to me, at least that could help me like set aside some of those thoughts or worries about what others are thinking, you know, it doesn’t have to blanket include everyone.

00:46:32.21
neelyquinn
Right. Like you have a specific subset of people who you do care about and who who do care about you. And that’s what you need.

00:46:39.39
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:41.19
neelyquinn
And you have you.

00:46:43.41
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm.

00:46:43.98
neelyquinn
First and foremost, you love you. You respect you. You like deep down, you do.

00:46:51.11
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:46:51.98
neelyquinn
You accept you. And that is actually all we need.

00:46:58.98
Robynne Murray
Yeah. It’s a it’s a scary world out there, you know, like, even though we can love and accept and respect ourselves, we don’t ah Most people don’t want to be alone, you know, they want friendship and they want partnership. And so even if you really do have all the self-worth and self-love in the world, like you still care what others think and you still want to have people in your life that love you.

00:47:32.08
Robynne Murray
So like, it still matters how you show up.

00:47:33.73
neelyquinn
Yeah, it totally does.

00:47:35.81
Robynne Murray
um Yeah.

00:47:38.26
neelyquinn
And we can, like we’ve been talking about, narrow the focus on who we care, like who we show up for, who we care if they show up for us.

00:47:45.23
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:47:50.84
neelyquinn
We can just be more discerning. It’s so interesting because I’ve watched my husband be discerning about people for the last 20 years where he’s like, I don’t really care about that person.

00:47:53.41
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:47:58.51
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm.

00:48:01.20
neelyquinn
And I’m like, but I need that person’s approval.

00:48:01.88
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

00:48:05.44
neelyquinn
Even though I’m like, yeah.

00:48:05.95
Robynne Murray
Yeah, like, that person’s a dick, like, doesn’t matter. They have to like me.

00:48:08.34
neelyquinn
Yeah, need approval.

00:48:11.46
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:48:12.03
neelyquinn
And so i I do think that this takes practice constantly.

00:48:16.80
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

00:48:16.98
neelyquinn
And that’s how we cultivate this. It can’t just be like, Oh, I’m, I don’t care about what these people think anymore, it takes practice. And so I will ask you, In the past, tell me a time where you had a really large challenge to overcome and you overcame it.

00:48:43.40
Robynne Murray
climbing specific or anything.

00:48:44.75
neelyquinn
No, just anything.

00:48:46.98
Robynne Murray
um I mean, my most recent thing that comes to mind is definitely this project that I just finished, which took me a lot longer than I thought it would. And and mentally and emotionally was really, really challenging. um And yeah, i eventually I just kept showing up, I kept trying, and eventually I was able to do it. And I felt a lot of gratitude for myself for like just showing up and just keeping on showing up.

00:49:20.40
Robynne Murray
um But I also feel like I could have done it a lot better.

00:49:24.49
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:49:26.12
Robynne Murray
like I feel like there were ways that like my mental game suffered but it throughout that process. um I got into a situation that like you know i’ve I’ve never had to try that many times on something and I was so lost and confused that You know, I tried all the different tactics in the book, you know, the same day and like that didn’t work. Anyway, so yeah, overcame it, felt really great about it, but also I think there’s things that I would do differently in the future.

00:49:56.34
neelyquinn
and Okay, so yes, you had this big challenge, you overcame it, there are things you learned from it too. Now, tell me what is it about you that helped you overcome that challenge?

00:50:11.44
Robynne Murray
I am, well stubborn may not be the nicest way to say it, but dedicated maybe. Like when I set my mind to something, I will do whatever I can in order to um kind of accomplish it or see it through or whatever the goal is.

00:50:32.94
neelyquinn
Okay.

00:50:33.25
Robynne Murray
um So yeah, I think that my may kind of perseverance, and that’s not just in climbing. Like I’m like that with work and it was like that in school and um a lot of other aspects of my life too.

00:50:46.86
neelyquinn
Okay, so you’re stubborn, you’re going to see something through you persevere. What else made you send that thing?

00:50:55.39
Robynne Murray
Honestly, I think the community support that I had, like there were people that I met at that Craig, who I climbed with and learned a lot from, there are people who came with me not even to climb just to like, support me and be there with me. ah My partner went a lot with me and was incredibly supportive and kind and like, you know, listen to all my doubts and fears and um So yeah, I i think the the sense of connection with the community was huge.

00:51:25.28
neelyquinn
Okay.

00:51:25.61
Robynne Murray
And also that people would show up for me even when I didn’t send or even when I was struggling. It was like, it didn’t seem to, like the fact that I wasn’t sending didn’t change the fact that people were still willing to like show up for me.

00:51:44.28
neelyquinn
Yeah, so they sort of helped you foster belief in yourself.

00:51:48.43
Robynne Murray
believe Yeah, big time.

00:51:48.97
neelyquinn
I believe in you.

00:51:50.49
Robynne Murray
I mean, there were so many times where I had no belief in myself and my friends would be like, nope, you’ve got this. I watched you climb it, you can do this. And like, I literally just had to take their word for it because I couldn’t find that for myself.

00:52:05.14
neelyquinn
Okay. And what about your climbing skills and training? Like what of that went into sending?

00:52:13.43
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I definitely trained pretty hard. um I went from like sending a couple 12Cs to sending a couple 13As in like six months. I still haven’t sent a 12D. I worked pretty hard for that through the winter. I was pretty dedicated. I also think the claim both of the climbs that I did this spring suited me really well. They’re very technical and a lot of nice footwork. and just i I really love that. so I think I learned a lot from the

00:52:45.90
Robynne Murray
But yeah, from a lot of the climbs that I’ve done recently on technique.

00:52:50.47
neelyquinn
Okay, great. This is awesome. So what I’m trying to do here is actually get you to see some of the qualities that you have in order to overcome a challenge, right? And all of these are applicable to this challenge. You came in here, you’re on a podcast, vulnerability speaking about things. that are private, that could be private.

00:53:12.95
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:53:14.08
neelyquinn
And so you clearly want to overcome this body image, these body image issues that you have, right?

00:53:19.24
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:22.22
neelyquinn
So I’m assuming that that is akin to a climbing project, or you could think of it like that.

00:53:28.45
Robynne Murray
yeah Yeah, I think it’s something that it’s like, what I realized is that even if I set what I thought might be like a lifetime climbing goal of climbing 513, like it doesn’t mean as much if I can still go home and feel bad about myself around it.

00:53:46.54
neelyquinn
Mm.

00:53:47.15
Robynne Murray
It’s like, so, you know, all the physical training is great, but like, I think the mental training is really what I need to dive into. um and and and And the goals change too, you know, like a year ago, I was like, oh, if I can climb 513, I’ll be happy forever. And now I’m like, hmm, actually eight days, really like the nice number, like it’s always gonna change. So if I, like, if I don’t find the way to just be happy with myself, like I’m gonna keep chasing those goals, thinking they’re gonna give me some kind of peace and happiness, And that’s just not where it’s going to come from.

00:54:19.87
neelyquinn
Well, yeah, and part of the reason that you’re chasing those goals is to have belonging because you don’t have you have not cultivated enough self-worth to feel like you belong.

00:54:19.92
Robynne Murray
so

00:54:24.87
Robynne Murray
poorily Totally. Totally. And to prove to myself that I can do something, like I actually felt quite surprised when I was able to send my recent project. in my current body, like all winter, I was like, oh, I’ll get close, but then I’ll probably have to like go on a super crash diet and lose a bunch of weight to do it. And I just didn’t do that and I still sent.

00:54:49.58
neelyquinn
Mm

00:54:52.64
Robynne Murray
And it was really cool to like, okay, see what my body is capable of um in its current form.

00:55:00.23
neelyquinn
Well, yeah. And that’s also something there is objectivity because like with climbing, we say to ourselves, all right, what am I lacking?

00:55:00.57
Robynne Murray
um

00:55:08.85
neelyquinn
What do I need to train? What do I need to do mentally, tactically, and for, you know, environmentally, whatever to get me to this sense. And with this goal too, you can have that. You’re looking at yourself more objectively now. You’re saying you’re admitting. I sent this thing heavier than I thought I ever could and so that is blowing up some myths and I can accept that and it’s going to take a while for that to sink in but that’s also your job now going forward.

00:55:30.23
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:55:32.69
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:38.11
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:55:39.39
neelyquinn
Look at these things objectively. What am I doing in thinking that is actually a era irrational? what but How can I check the facts here?

00:55:46.04
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:55:48.81
neelyquinn
Like where When I’m feeling these negative things, what do do I notice it?

00:55:49.91
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:55:55.20
neelyquinn
do i Do I catch myself feeling these negative things?

00:55:56.67
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:55:57.92
neelyquinn
And what am I doing then to address it? So I just want to um reiterate the things that you said, helped you send. And that is being stubborn, seeing something through, which I really, really want you to embrace with this challenge. Like um my dad said to me, I was studying stoicism or something, and he was like, I want you to be the best stoic you can be you know like it so you can put these this like practice and um into anything it doesn’t have to just be a physical pursuit but um so being stubborn persevering

00:56:25.92
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

00:56:36.87
neelyquinn
you had community support. And I really wonder how you could foster that community support in this too, because oftentimes when we have this shame, ah when we speak it out loud to people, it becomes less potent.

00:56:44.25
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

00:56:50.87
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really interesting. I, I do talk about it quite a lot with my climbing partners and my friends and it’s, it can feel so heavy until I say something out loud and then it’s almost like, okay, I’ve acknowledged this and we can let it go. But what I realized is, is there’s almost this like need to say it out loud. Like, Oh, I, you know, I have this shame around my body and I feel this way. to take some of the sting out of what they might be thinking.

00:57:23.88
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:57:24.28
Robynne Murray
It’s like, okay, well, if I say it first, they know I know. They’re not like, oh, she doesn’t even realize what her problem is. Like, no, I know. it So yeah, it’s it’s a really weird. Like, it feels good to say it out loud, but also like, am I saying it for the right reasons?

00:57:39.81
neelyquinn
Right, it’s more of a defense mechanism, like, look, I know there’s this thing that’s wrong with me, and I know that you can see it.

00:57:42.37
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:57:47.18
neelyquinn
And so I want you to know that I know, and this is, yeah, just how it’s gonna be.

00:57:47.86
Robynne Murray
yeah

00:57:51.01
Robynne Murray
yeah Yeah, totally.

00:57:53.29
neelyquinn
So what do you think would be more productive for you in healing this negative body image? image

00:58:04.12
Robynne Murray
I mean, talking to my friends and my partner climbing partners about it, and i in a way that’s not defensive or in a way that’s not like, you know, um trying to make myself bad, but more just to like have the conversation and like share how I’m feeling. And I always like, I like being vulnerable with my friends. So I always feel like if I, if we can connect on some vulnerable topic, then there’s a lot less power or import in like how I climb or how I perform, because what’s really important is like the connection with those people.

00:58:43.86
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

00:58:43.98
Robynne Murray
Um, yeah.

00:58:45.53
neelyquinn
Yeah, for sure. So connection is really important. And obviously, bringing up vulnerable topics is important in connection. I wonder, though, what your goal is in bringing it up? Is it that you want them to validate you? Like, no, no, you look beautiful. No, no, you’re really strong. No, no, I accept you the way that you are. Like, what is it exactly that you’re looking for from them?

00:59:09.75
Robynne Murray
Yeah. um I mean, if I’m truthful, validation probably is um at the top of my list, but I have some friends who, you know, like, I have friends who will be like, no, you’re perfect. You’re beautiful. You’re skinny. And you’re like, no, you’re just like, that’s not real. Like tell me that like, you know, you accept me just as I am and that like, I’m, you know, I’m a valuable human as I am.

00:59:28.31
neelyquinn
Yeah, do you even believe them?

00:59:35.19
Robynne Murray
Like, yeah, I think hearing more validation along the lines of like, uh, like connection, respect, um, friendship, like that, like those things are good and solid and less about like, you know, how I actually look because ultimately like one day I might think I’m way too fat and one day I might feel okay and I’m the same person with the same body. So that type of like fluffy, like, no, you look great. Just like it feels good in the moment, but that’s not really like solving the underlying problem of wanting to feel that community connection and belonging.

01:00:11.36
neelyquinn
No, and it never has. And that’s the thing, it almost never does for any of us.

01:00:13.77
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:00:16.86
neelyquinn
Like even when you had an eating disorder and you were, I’m assuming you were lighter then, were you?

01:00:19.99
Robynne Murray
yeah

01:00:22.88
Robynne Murray
Like I was like seven pounds lighter, like not that much.

01:00:26.21
neelyquinn
Okay.

01:00:26.28
Robynne Murray
And I didn’t climb, so I probably looked the same.

01:00:27.62
neelyquinn
All right. Well, I don’t, well, what I was going to say is a lot of times, even when we are lighter, even when people say, Oh, you look great. We’re still like, no, I don’t like, and we still don’t believe it.

01:00:40.10
Robynne Murray
Right.

01:00:40.61
neelyquinn
So my question is, I wonder if it, if what you’re looking for is validation of who you are and how they feel about you.

01:00:41.56
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:00:50.24
Robynne Murray
and please

01:00:50.61
neelyquinn
If that’s what you can say to them is look, if you want to be vulnerable, this is what you say like,

01:00:55.40
Robynne Murray
who Yeah.

01:00:56.47
neelyquinn
look I’m really working to accept my body and love myself and feel like I belong and what I need from you is actually could you just tell me some things that you love about me you know yeah that have nothing to do you don’t even have to say that it’s like they’ll probably just tell you things that aren’t don’t have anything to do with your body

01:01:08.83
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Like that are not my body. Yeah.

01:01:14.49
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Mm hmm.

01:01:19.61
neelyquinn
Because you constantly bringing up your body, it’s just reinforcing it in your mind.

01:01:19.66
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:01:24.52
neelyquinn
Like there’s something wrong with me and I need to get an okay from them.

01:01:28.12
Robynne Murray
Right. Yeah. I need to get like a thumbs up. Like you can, like, okay, you can let it go for the next 24 hours. I’m going to tell you your body’s okay.

01:01:35.20
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:01:35.31
Robynne Murray
But then it comes up again. So yeah.

01:01:36.65
neelyquinn
Yeah. And I mean, honestly, they’re probably like, look, I love her. I told her this last time. Like, what does she want from me?

01:01:45.94
Robynne Murray
Right.

01:01:46.62
neelyquinn
I mean, I’m not saying they’re getting in, I don’t know how they feel, but I’m just I’m just wondering if you bringing up in the same ways that you have been isn’t being productive.

01:01:46.92
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:01:49.41
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:01:59.22
Robynne Murray
e Yeah, you might be right. Um, especially if it’s looking for that kind of immediate validation around specifically my body.

01:02:08.70
neelyquinn
Mm hmm.

01:02:09.33
Robynne Murray
I like what you just said about kind of approaching it more of like, Hey, I’m working on this thing. And here’s what would really help me. You know, what are, can you give me some words of affirmation around me as a friend? Like, what do you, what do you like about me as a friend?

01:02:22.63
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:02:25.20
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:02:25.29
Robynne Murray
Um, yeah.

01:02:26.21
neelyquinn
Do you accept me?

01:02:28.41
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:02:29.44
neelyquinn
Why do you accept me?

01:02:29.51
Robynne Murray
And you know, I probably wouldn’t do that with just anyone because that is pretty vulnerable. But yeah, definitely with my with my close friends, I would feel comfortable doing that.

01:02:34.36
neelyquinn
No.

01:02:39.17
neelyquinn
Right. And those are the people it matters. Those are the people we want to belong with.

01:02:42.31
Robynne Murray
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

01:02:45.82
neelyquinn
And when we know that we actually do for the right reasons, then it’s easier to be like, I don’t care what those bros think.

01:02:53.55
Robynne Murray
Right. Yeah.

01:02:54.95
neelyquinn
Because you have validation, you have information.

01:02:56.13
Robynne Murray
Yeah, like I’m okay.

01:02:57.98
neelyquinn
Yeah, I’m okay. Yeah, I find myself doing that now at Crags where I’m just like, I am in a bubble.

01:02:59.84
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:03:04.06
neelyquinn
I don’t care about you. Like I care about you as a human, but I don’t really care to. It’s I just you can do that.

01:03:09.98
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:03:13.09
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:03:13.22
neelyquinn
And and so um I just want to go through a couple more and then I know that we’re over time a little bit. But so we said community support and we talked about ways that you could foster that a little bit. And then um your belief in yourself that you’re getting from others. And I think that that goes along with those conversations, actually.

01:03:34.16
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

01:03:35.60
neelyquinn
And then training. So this is where we can look at it from like, this is where you in the rest of your life can start to notice, how does this show up for me, this negative body image?

01:03:45.80
Robynne Murray
Hmm. Hmm.

01:03:48.58
neelyquinn
How am I perpetuating this? And what can I do objectively to stop this? And whether that’s like, you know, maybe if we were to be working together, like we could then look at those things ah one by one and really tackle them.

01:04:05.06
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:04:05.84
neelyquinn
But it has it has to take some objectivity and actual training and, you know, ah looking at this more as like a long term goal.

01:04:09.94
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:04:16.07
Robynne Murray
Totally. Yeah.

01:04:16.75
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:04:17.57
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think that’s like. I’m really good at having like to do lists like, okay, you know, before bed, I am going to like do this 10 minute meditation and then like, but little bit or if I’m at a crag and this happens, like, here’s how I respond. So maybe I need to even just like write out some of what we talked about today and like have it, you know, like on my phone or something to be able to remind myself in those moments, because The act of doing some of the things we talked about, like kind of reminding myself like these are the people that matter, like, and all of that, I think will work if I remember to do it and remembering can be really hard when I get wrapped up.

01:04:56.31
neelyquinn
who Yeah. So when you get wrapped up, what what do you need to hear from yourself? Given everything that we’ve talked about.

01:05:09.70
Robynne Murray
I just like, I’m good. Like I got this. I’m okay. um Often when I’m wrapped up, it’s because something didn’t go well. You know, maybe I didn’t feel like I climbed well or I’m having a ah hard day with my body image or something like that. And reminding myself like it doesn’t always feel like this. Like it does get better.

01:05:33.01
neelyquinn
Hmm.

01:05:33.35
Robynne Murray
ah Yeah.

01:05:34.57
neelyquinn
It might be even deeper than that. It’s like, even though I didn’t perform as well as I wanted to today, I am still OK. I am still OK. And I still belong and I’m still loved and I still love myself.

01:05:48.41
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:05:51.33
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:05:51.77
neelyquinn
Because this shit doesn’t actually matter.

01:05:53.95
Robynne Murray
Yeah. This shit doesn’t matter.

01:05:57.00
neelyquinn
I mean, it does.

01:05:57.04
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:05:57.64
neelyquinn
But in the grand scheme of things, if you never climbed again, these people would still love you. And you would still love you.

01:06:03.91
Robynne Murray
It’s interesting, actually, like that that saying like this shit doesn’t really matter. I remember hearing you say that somewhere else and was like, you know what? It’s a good mantra when you’re like you know having the whatever, fear of failure, performance, anxiety, just to be like like, this particular thing, this next five minutes of rock climbing is not like gonna change who I am as a person. it doesn’t go It’s not gonna change how my friends care about me or what people think of me.

01:06:30.39
neelyquinn
No.

01:06:30.52
Robynne Murray
um So in that way, this shit doesn’t matter.

01:06:31.72
neelyquinn
it Yeah, exactly. It simply gives you an outlet to try hard.

01:06:38.19
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:06:38.96
neelyquinn
And that’s what you’re looking for, it to try hard and to progress sometimes.

01:06:43.37
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:06:44.05
neelyquinn
Yeah. So all of the things that we just said, when you’re in those moments, you’re leaving the crag, you feel shitty about your body. What are you going to say to yourself?

01:06:54.45
Robynne Murray
I’m gonna say to myself that I am okay just as I am. I am a good person. I have great friends. I have community who care about me. um And i I’m good. like and I feel like that’s a simple thing to say, like just I’m good.

01:07:12.12
neelyquinn
I’m good. Yeah. You come, you’re coming back to that. I like that, but it needs to symbolize like I’m okay. Just as I am, I’m a good person. I have great friends. Also, I choose this body because you’re not, you’re choosing not to do anything to change it.

01:07:23.99
Robynne Murray
he

01:07:28.03
neelyquinn
That is a choice.

01:07:28.56
Robynne Murray
Or yeah, yeah, totally. Like this is, yeah, i’m I’m choosing to prioritize the things in my life that I’m prioritizing and this is the body that I have today.

01:07:42.11
neelyquinn
Yeah. And I choose that body.

01:07:45.71
Robynne Murray
and I choose this body.

01:07:46.72
neelyquinn
Because you’re still, it’s still a little victim me there when you say, and this is the body I have. And it’s like, and this is the body that I choose today.

01:07:52.13
Robynne Murray
I know.

01:07:54.68
neelyquinn
And this is what I’m saying is like, this takes practice. Sometimes you have to fake it before you make it, but this is the body that you’re choosing.

01:07:58.54
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:08:01.88
neelyquinn
So if you can even muster those words, it’s going to start to sink in.

01:08:06.63
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think that’s a hard phrase because if given other choices, easy other choices, I guess, I would choose differently, you know, I would choose a more petite body or ah like, so it so the word choose is a hard one for me, because I know that by my actions, I effectively am choosing it, but I’m not consciously choosing it, if that makes sense.

01:08:30.35
neelyquinn
But now you are.

01:08:32.17
Robynne Murray
Yeah, yeah. Maybe now that it’s conscious, I can actively think of it that way.

01:08:39.78
neelyquinn
I hear you and this is like you taking responsibility for that choice is the most empowering thing that you could do.

01:08:47.64
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

01:08:54.64
neelyquinn
And I could, and I could liken this to a lot of things like, I’m going to go here and I’m sorry. But like, if you were in a relationship where you were being abused and you were like, this is happening to me. This is happening to me. I don’t like it, but it’s happening to me.

01:09:08.79
Robynne Murray
a

01:09:12.13
neelyquinn
And you’re victimizing yourself where you’re like, ah, but I’ll stay. I guess I’ll stay. I don’t know. i’ll I guess I’ll say. And then finally, you’re like, wait a second. This is happening to me. And I actually want to stay in this. This is actually what I like. And and I just listened to it an interview with Megan Fox where she actually said that she said she was in an abusive relationship.

01:09:35.29
Robynne Murray
Wow.

01:09:37.66
neelyquinn
And that is what she chooses to do because she likes it better than boring. OK, so she chooses it, which is so empowering and hearing it from her.

01:09:42.44
Robynne Murray
Wow. Interesting.

01:09:49.24
neelyquinn
I was like, you go, whatever you want. Like, that’s your life.

01:09:53.07
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:09:53.74
neelyquinn
And so I know it’s a little bit different, but these things that we’re told not to choose because it’s bad and shameful, like just choose it.

01:10:06.06
Robynne Murray
But I, yeah, I hear what you’re saying, but I think, yeah, the analogy is is’s kind of a hard one because then it’s almost like saying that I’m choosing

01:10:08.39
neelyquinn
Or at least, yeah.

01:10:18.71
Robynne Murray
Like, my my my body isn’t okay, and I’m choosing it anyway.

01:10:19.42
neelyquinn
Something bad. Yes.

01:10:23.74
Robynne Murray
Like, abusive relationship isn’t good, but I’m choosing it any anyway, you know?

01:10:27.09
neelyquinn
I know, and it is a bad example, but it’s also a good example because societally, an abusive relationship isn’t a good thing.

01:10:36.42
Robynne Murray
Right.

01:10:36.70
neelyquinn
Societally, having a bigger body isn’t a good thing.

01:10:39.97
Robynne Murray
Right.

01:10:40.48
neelyquinn
But if you just own what you have, like I totally get what you’re saying, and I’m pushing back pretty hard on this, because this is a really difficult topic.

01:10:43.13
Robynne Murray
Mm-hmm.

01:10:49.52
neelyquinn
And I want you to see that there’s a different way.

01:10:49.59
Robynne Murray
Yeah,

01:10:52.66
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:10:53.06
Robynne Murray
yeah I see what you’re saying. It’s like, okay, we don’t necessarily just have to choose the thing that our so our kind of upbringing in society tells us to choose. Like we can choose whatever we want, really.

01:11:03.43
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:11:03.89
Robynne Murray
And it’s nobody’s business what we choose.

01:11:05.77
neelyquinn
Yeah, exactly. And we can make another analogy. But um I think that the point here is just that like baby steps with this and having these things in your mind like, um I am OK. I’m good. And I’m choosing to prioritize climbing and so instead of weight loss.

01:11:25.47
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:11:27.72
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:11:28.60
neelyquinn
And I am okay just as I am.

01:11:29.96
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

01:11:31.30
neelyquinn
I’m a good person. I have great friends and you can write all of these down.

01:11:35.10
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

01:11:35.85
neelyquinn
And like what you were saying to your child self, uh, that focusing on what your body can do, you’re so much more to the world than just your body.

01:11:42.38
Robynne Murray
Mm hmm.

01:11:48.63
neelyquinn
You’re loved for more than your body and all of that.

01:11:52.87
Robynne Murray
here yeah

01:11:54.48
neelyquinn
So, but what do you think?

01:11:58.54
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think, I think that you’ve given me a really interesting perspective, this idea that like, I am choosing climbing, I am choosing activity, I am choosing cheesecake, or whatever, like, I’m actively making those choices. And I’m good, like, as long as I am, like, it’s okay to be choosing those things. There’s no right or wrong choice as long as it’s working for me.

01:12:26.16
neelyquinn
Right.

01:12:26.20
Robynne Murray
And yeah, I mean it is, other than like worrying what other people think. You know, um from a day to day I have good energy, I can climb, I feel like I’m climbing well, like it’s working. It’s just, yeah, I need to separate out worrying what others think.

01:12:42.35
neelyquinn
Yes. Yeah. Great. So do you see yourself doing any of these things in the next week?

01:12:49.35
Robynne Murray
Yeah, I think so. i i I’m going to write it on my phone and maybe give myself a little reminder or something like that because I think that if I can just think about these things maybe every day a little bit to try and like make it a little more second nature for me, it’ll stick a little bit better. So yeah, I definitely see doing those things.

01:13:07.81
neelyquinn
Mm hmm. Yeah. And you said that you can follow. You’re really good at following a program. So those things are part of your program. What else can be part of your program?

01:13:18.72
Robynne Murray
Um, I think actually there’s a meditation that I really love. That’s like kind of a ah body gratitude meditation where you kind of go through your body and you like think about what you like about certain things. And so maybe that could be part of my program along with the things that we’ve talked about today.

01:13:35.34
neelyquinn
hu

01:13:35.81
Robynne Murray
Um, I think that would be really helpful. And then yeah, when I have an opportunity to be vulnerable with my friends, approaching it in a slightly different way than maybe I have been in the past. um I’d be really curious to try that and see how that feels.

01:13:51.45
neelyquinn
Yeah, catching yourself looking for validate that immediate validation.

01:13:54.56
Robynne Murray
ah one Yeah, yeah.

01:13:55.17
neelyquinn
Yeah. and Trying to give it to yourself and instead. Yeah. I mean, those sound like really great first steps with this.

01:14:02.87
Robynne Murray
Yeah, yeah, I know it’s going to be a process.

01:14:03.75
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:14:06.00
Robynne Murray
like Definitely.

01:14:06.19
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:14:08.53
Robynne Murray
ah Yeah, it’s not an easy one. But It’s something that like, I just want to feel all the joy all the time. So but even if I can get a little bit closer to that, I’ll be happy.

01:14:17.65
neelyquinn
Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, how are you feeling now?

01:14:21.41
Robynne Murray
Good. Yeah, this was awesome. um I feel very, like I’ve got some ideas to work with and some different ways of thinking about things than I had when I started, which is really interesting for me. I feel like I’ve done a lot of therapy around this and often it’s kind of the same things. so I like having slightly different perspectives, so that’s awesome. um Yeah, I feel good.

01:14:45.97
neelyquinn
Great. Well, again, I really appreciate you coming and being public about this. I know that there are probably thousands of women who will listen to this and be so grateful for you doing this.

01:14:52.00
Robynne Murray
yeah

01:14:59.82
neelyquinn
um And hopefully it’ll help others.

01:15:00.45
Robynne Murray
Yeah.

01:15:01.26
neelyquinn
So thank you so much. And good luck with all this. I would love an update, actually.

01:15:05.44
Robynne Murray
Yeah, that’d be great.

01:15:07.10
neelyquinn
Yeah, um if you want to.

01:15:08.13
Robynne Murray
Yeah, and thank you so much. Sorry, thank you for having me on.

01:15:10.39
neelyquinn
Yeah.

01:15:11.31
Robynne Murray
And yeah, I really hope that kind of sharing a little bit about this ah does help other people too. you know I i and know I’m not alone out there and it would be great if I had have known that earlier. So hopefully others will realize that too, that um this is fairly common.

01:15:23.93
neelyquinn
Mm-hmm, Definitely common, no matter what your body size is, really.

01:15:32.03
Robynne Murray
Yeah, totally. It doesn’t matter what we look like. I feel like a lot of people have these body image issues.

01:15:36.83
neelyquinn
Yeah, for sure.

01:15:37.85
Robynne Murray
yeah

01:15:38.95
neelyquinn
All right, well, thank you, Robin. And yeah, ah good luck out there with all this.

01:15:43.72
Robynne Murray
Awesome. Thanks so much, Neely.