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Transcript

Neely Quinn: Welcome to the TrainingBeta podcast, where I talk to climbers and trainers about how we can get a little better at our favorite sport. I’m your host, Neely Quinn, and today we are on episode 45 where I talk with Ethan Pringle.

I actually had this conversation with him about three weeks ago when he was working The Nest, which is a V15 boulder in the Vegas area. He was really close. I don’t think he’s sent it yet but I’m sure he will soon. We talked about his process on that, how he’s working it, what he’s done to prepare for it, and we talked about his process on Jumbo Love which is a 5.15b, also in the Vegas area, and why it took him so long to do it, what his process is on long projects like that and what his training is or, I should say, lack thereof since he’s not really a ‘training’ kind of climber. He’s more of a ‘climbing’ kind of climber. That’s a tongue twister.

We’ll talk about that and we also talked about him being depressed and struggling with that and how that affects his climbing and life in general. I think it’s something a lot of us can relate with.

Before I get into the interview I want to let you know that Friction Labs is my very favorite chalk company and they’re giving you guys some really great discounts in case you want to try their chalk out for yourself. You can go to www.frictionlabs.com/trainingbeta and you’ll find those there.

A little update about is me that I recently started training myself. I asked Kris Peters to help me with that because I am in a situation where my surgical shoulder is doing well, my other shoulder isn’t doing so well, and I really want to avoid surgery. I wanted to know the most efficient way and safest way to train myself without injuring my shoulders but still getting me as strong as I want to be. I have an ultimate goal this year of doing this route in Rifle and it’s long and it’s got a couple long cruxes on it and I wanted help.

I had my first session with him and it was super-illuminating, actually. Him being able to see me climb was really important, I think, and it’s actually something that he’s going to start offering to you guys. In-person sessions for the first couple of times and then you guys can do the five-week program with him afterwards, which is basically what I’m going to be doing with him.  He noticed that my back is weaker now after my surgery and my shoulders are weaker now after my surgery. My core isn’t very strong so I’m not being very explosive because I don’t have the power to be very explosive. I’m also locking a lot of things off that I don’t need to lock-off so that puts undue stress on my shoulders and it wastes energy and so he’s going to help me with all of that.

Part of my program is going to be using the treadwall and luckily we have one here.  Another part will be deadlifting and I will be doing certain weight stuff that doesn’t hurt my shoulders and climbing drills. Anyway, I’ll keep you guys updated on that. I’m super psyched on it and I’m really excited about climbing and training right now. Hopefully it works!

Without further adieu I’m going to get this interview started. Here’s Ethan Pringle. I hope you like it.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Welcome to the show, Ethan.

 

Ethan Pringle: Thanks for having me, Neely.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, I really appreciate it. So, for anybody who doesn’t know who you are, for people that have been living under rocks

[laughs] –

 

Ethan Pringle: Or haven’t been [laughs.

 

Neely Quinn: Or haven’t been [laughs], can you tell me a little bit about yourself?

 

Ethan Pringle: Sure. I’m 29, turning 30 this May. I’m a white guy [laughs], I think most people know that already. I’m from San Francisco and born and raised in the city. One of the few natives. Currently in Las Vegas, bouldering. I’ve been pretty much a full time climber since, I guess since I graduated high school but even before then in a way. I’ve been climbing for just over 20 years. I started summer of 1995 when I was eight, when I first discovered Mission Cliffs, the climbing gym that’s just four blocks away from my house. I fell in love immediately and I’ve been climbing rocks and plastic ever since.

 

Neely Quinn: Cool. Eight years old? Is that what you said?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I was –

 

Neely Quinn: That’s really young.

 

Ethan Pringle: A few months after my eighth birthday – yeah, I was really young. I’m grateful that I found it so early in life because I think it just helped me in a lot of ways but physically prepared myself for climbing later in life.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, it seems to give people an edge.

 

Ethan Pringle: For sure, yeah. I think it definitely helps a lot to just sort of have it so ingrained into your being.

 

Neely Quinn: After you were eight, how did your climbing career progress [laughs]? Did you start competing? Did you start climbing outside?

 

Ethan Pringle: Well, I started doing competitions before I really started climbing outside much. I think I went to Castle Rock and Pinnacles a couple of times when I was 10/11 years old. When I was ten I went to my first comp, my first junior comp. It was at Vertex, actually, in Santa Rosa, the gym that Kevin grew up climbing at.

 

Neely Quinn: Kevin Jorgeson.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, but I think he didn’t start till a few years after I did or something like that. I did the youth circuit for a good number of years and sort of around age 11/12 is when I got more interested in outside climbing. I was kind of doing the youth circuit and simultaneously incorporating outdoor climbing trips into the trips I would take with my parents to the junior comps.

 

Neely Quinn: So your parents were really supportive and traveled around with you?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah.  They were behind climbing 100% and I never would have achieved what I have with climbing if it wasn’t for their support. I mean, they still support me in a lot of ways. They’ve given me a place to live when I’m basing out of the Bay Area. They were always super supportive of climbing and saw how much enjoyment I got out of it and how successful I was at an early age. They were behind me and they chaperoned me and some other kids around to comps in the States and even to Europe when I was young, like, 13/14/15.  After that, I think around age 15/16, they sort of stopped coming on trips with me and I would go with either older guys or girls or whatever, or just kids that were my same age or maybe a year or two older that had their driver’s license.

 

Neely Quinn: You probably grew up pretty quickly hanging out with adults and older kids.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I’d like to think so. I think I was always traveling with my parents. Long before I started climbing we would/they were really into windsurfing. That’s how they met, actually, snowboarding, skiing, and all that sort of stuff, just seeing different places, so I was traveling a lot when I was really young. I think that helped me kind of grow up quickly.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, and it prepared you for a life of traveling yourself.

 

Ethan Pringle: Exactly, yeah. And I think also, like, growing up in the city, just being exposed to a lot of different cultures and a lot of different ways of living and every end of the socioeconomic spectrum just helped shape me as a human being.

 

Neely Quinn: Back to your comp climbing. You didn’t stop comp climbing until recently, right?

 

Ethan Pringle: I guess in a way I haven’t really stopped. I still do the odd competition here and there but I definitely don’t do as many as I used to. I did Nationals. I did Youth Nationals until I was about 16 and then I stopped doing Youth Nationals and started doing Adult Nationals and the adult comp circuit in the States and a few World Cups here and there. I did a lot more comps in my late teens and early twenties and then, I guess, a few years ago I stopped doing as many.

 

Neely Quinn: How did you do in comps?

 

Ethan Pringle: When I was younger I did pretty well. I think just having a ton of experience climbing in the gym and sport climbing outside and stuff really helped prepare me for the comps. I did pretty well in a fair few of them. I won one Bouldering Nationals, I think when I was 19 or 20, but I think just because Daniel wasn’t there. [laughs] It was more of a local crowd at that one. It was, like, this random one in Sacramento and I think it was one of the years that they had two Nationals for some reason. I got second place at a fair number of national, kind of international level bouldering comps, like five or six years ago. Like a couple of random OR comps and one Nor’easter Bouldering Comp.

I used to do pretty decently at the comps and then all of a sudden this new crop of gym climber/phenom youngsters came up and all of a sudden it got harder to do well and just show up with nothing but experience and a little bit of fitness under your belt and do well. It’s like now you have to really be trained for them and you can probably do well if you show up for them and get lucky and, depending on what you’ve been doing before the comp, like if you have enough fitness, it’s definitely possible to still do well. I think comps are so psychological. I mean climbing is so psychological that it’s definitely not all about your physical shape but nowadays I think they pay so much more attention to making the problems as consistently difficult as they can and also as tricky as they can so you really do need a little bit of extra strength. It helps a lot to have a bit of extra strength to get to the top of them now.

I think if I went back to taking comps more seriously I’d try to dedicate some more time to, or I’d dedicate any time to, systematic training. It is something I would like to get back to at some point, maybe this year.

 

Neely Quinn: Really?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I mean I have that drive still to do comps. It’s weird because I don’t know why it’s still there but it’s still fun to do comps and it’s fun to go to comps and just be super-inspired by how strong everyone else is. It’s just a good/I feel like it’s a really good energy. It kind of sucks to go expecting something and not meet your expectations. Like, that’s just climbing in general, I guess. In comps it’s like, sort of compounded because you’re going to climb plastic, basically. At least if you go on an outdoor trip and you expect to send everything and you send nothing or only one thing, you got to climb outside a bunch and got to hang with cool people and you got to be in a beautiful place. If you travel for a comp it’s like you’re spending all this money and investing all this time to do something that maybe isn’t your true passion or whatever. I guess it’s just part of the game but I am still/I do still have a bit of interest to do the comps, so we’ll see.

 

Neely Quinn: It seems like you’ve done more bouldering comps than route comps.

 

Ethan Pringle: I think that’s just by virtue of there being more bouldering comps to do. I feel like, yeah, there are just more bouldering comps out there than there are route comps.

 

Neely Quinn: You’re kind of special in the way that you’ve climbed pretty much to the max that’s possible in both bouldering and sport climbing. You’ve climbed 5.15b and you’ve climbed V15.

 

Ethan Pringle: I wouldn’t necessarily say that that’s true. I haven’t/I don’t know if I’ve climbed at a super-elite level in terms of bouldering. I feel like I can and I feel like now that I’m focusing more on it, now I can get nearly to that level but I haven’t dedicated nearly as much time to projecting hard boulder problems as I have to projecting hard routes.

 

Neely Quinn: So you’re saying that climbing The Wheel of Life – is it V15? Confirmed?

 

Ethan Pringle: I wouldn’t consider it, no. For me, I consider The Wheel of Life to be more like a route than a boulder problem. For me, I think it fit my style pretty spot on. I’d say roof climbing is one of my strengths and also long endurance tests I seem to be a little better at than really short, fingery powerful stuff. For me, it’s like The Wheel wasn’t necessarily that much harder than its individual parts because the rests were so good, so it was like V9 to a V9 to a V11 to a V10 or something. Or V11 at the end – that one V11 at the end, I think, is what gives people the most trouble but I found this sort of tricky, weird, long-fellow beta that made it not too bad for me so I was able to tick it off relatively quickly. To me, that was like – in terms of the hardest boulder problems I’ve done, I wouldn’t even consider that one. It’s more like a route, first of all, and second of all it’s not that bouldery. It’s funny, I’ve been thinking a lot about quantifying my progression as a boulderer and I’ve done a lot of boulder problems that were once rated as 8B+ and got downrated to 8B [laughs]…

 

Neely Quinn: V14 to V13.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, that’s what I was going to clarify, so I don’t know if I’ve really done a legitimate V14. I’ve done a lot that could be V14 but maybe aren’t and I’ve done a lot of V13s. Most of them I’ve done in a few days or less but this season, in Red Rock now, is the first time I’ve really dedicated many, many days to a single boulder problem.

 

Neely Quinn: That’s what I was going to ask you. It sounds like you consider yourself more a route climber than a boulderer.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I’d say I’m probably a little bit better at routes, at roped stuff, than bouldering overall. I’d like to get better at bouldering…

 

Neely Quinn: So that’s why you’re in Vegas. Tell me about what you’re doing there, like what are your objectives and how’s it going?

 

Ethan Pringle: Okay. I’m here to try to climb The Nest, which is that V15 that Daniel and Jimmy put up a few winters ago/a couple winters ago that has since been repeated by Paul and Nalle. As soon as I saw a picture of it and as soon as I saw a video clip of it I was like, “I have to do that boulder problem someday.”

 

Neely Quinn: It’s pretty beautiful.

 

Ethan Pringle: It is. It’s a really stunning line and it’s sort of this cool, but really safe, power and power-endurance test piece. It’s a long hike but you can climb on it alone. It’s just a really stunning line and it’s like, it seems when you first get on it it seems totally impossible, or at least it did to me. I’ve had/I’ve watched other people get on it for their first time and they’re like, “God! I was expecting this to be a lot more doable.” It’s coming together. I’ve spent, I think I spent three days on it last winter when I was here for just, like, a week and probably 10 days on it this winter now, so a total of 13 days which is probably nine or 10 more than I’ve spent on any other boulder problem in my life. [laughs] It’s been a struggle for sure but it’s been a huge learning experience for me. It’s been really fun, actually. I’m still enjoying it 10 days into it this season. It’s taught me just how much you can learn on one move, like how much you can perfect one move. Even after 10 days of trying I’m still learning little subtleties and stuff.

 

Neely Quinn: So is it one move that’s shutting you down?

 

Ethan Pringle: There’s definitely one move, one really powerful move that’s harder and more stopper for me than the rest of them. It’s kind of like the first move of the crux of the problem. So there’s like – you basically climb a V11 to what’s considered the stand start of the problem and from there you climb a three-move V13, and the first move of that section is this giant lockoff from this weird, rounded, slopey crimp that you can grab a lot of different ways. It’s kind of like a weird ball with this crack in the back of it that you can bear down in. I’ve fiddled around with different hand positions on the hold and I can do the move using several different positions with my hand on the hold, but in order to do any moves into that move I have to make that move as efficient as possible because if I’m even just a little bit tired when I get to that move, I feel like I don’t really have a chance. I’ve been trying – it’s funny, I did the stand start to The Nest like my second day on it this winter and since then I think I’ve spent, like, eight or maybe even nine days just trying to link two moves into the stand start.

 

Neely Quinn: Oh God. That must be really frustrating.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, there was a point a few sessions ago where I was ready to give up. I was like, “God. I just don’t see this coming together for me. I’ve tried everything at this point.” Then I kind of had to get a little bit angry and get a little frustrated and take – you know, just walk away for a few minutes to send out some texts saying, “I don’t know what the hell I’m doing up here,” and “This is a total waste of time for me,” but everyone’s so encouraging that you kind of just get talked into trying again. I got on it again and I found one little trick that seemed to make a big difference and since then I’ve nearly linked. My last session on it I came really, really close to that link that I’ve been trying for eight days.

 

Neely Quinn: That’s great!

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, and then I just have to do, like, a V8 or 9 into that [laughs].

 

Neely Quinn: No big deal!

 

Ethan Pringle: And then it’ll be a piece of cake.

 

Neely Quinn: So, have you been working on it by yourself?

 

Ethan Pringle: The last three or four times I’ve been up there I’ve gone by myself, yeah.

 

Neely Quinn: That must take a lot of – you’re the second interview I’ve had this week where – well, I was talking to Jorg Verhoeven and he was working on The Nose by himself. I was like, “Gah, that must just take so much discipline to stay up there.” That must be hard.

 

Ethan Pringle: Well, first of all I think The Nose is quite a bit more involved than The Nest. All you need for The Nest is a few pads and for The Nose you need, like, many hundreds of feet of rope and many days’ worth of food and water, and all these different pieces of gear. Super big props to Jorg for sticking with it up there on The Nose. That’s amazing.

It’s been an interesting experience for me going bouldering by myself because I’ve never really done it before. I’ve always been the type of person to go out climbing with other people. I think before this winter in Red Rock I had maybe gone bouldering by myself, like, twice in my whole 20 years of climbing so it’s been really interesting to notice the differences of bouldering by myself versus bouldering with other people. Now that I’ve kind of gotten used to bouldering by myself, like, I’ve done three or maybe four days at The Nest solo and maybe one day at Meadowlark, where I came really close to sending that. Now that I’ve kind of gotten used to going bouldering by myself I’m kind of a little bit nervous to go with other people for some reason. [laughs] I don’t know, it’s just been so nice to go by myself. I can take as much time as I want between burns and do all the weird breathing exercises I want to without feeling embarrassed, just be totally alone and totally by myself, especially at Meadowlark where I don’t get cell service. I’m 100% completely focused on the boulder and the moment and it’s been really good.

 

Neely Quinn: There’s no anxiety about when it’s your turn or performance anxiety in front of people.

 

Ethan Pringle: Exactly, yeah. It’s like – people being there, in the back of my mind, it’s not a thing at all and it’s been really good. We’ll see. I might go out tomorrow with a small group of people to Meadowlark to try to finish that off. I got really close to sending that a couple/a few days ago.

 

Neely Quinn: Wait – what is Meadowlark again?

 

Ethan Pringle: Meadowlark is a V14 boulder problem in Gateway Canyon which is on the way to Sunny and Steep. You’ve probably walked past it before.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah.

 

Ethan Pringle: Paul put that up, like, four, maybe five years ago. A really awesome effort. I think he did it – the way that he did it he rated it V15 and it seems like the beta, the method, that he used made it really like V15. Now the consensus is V14 and it’s still, I think, a really hard one but I don’t know. If I do it, it might be the first of the grade, like, the first really solid V14 I’ve ever really done so…

 

Neely Quinn: I’m going to interrupt here for just a minute to let you guys know that Friction Labs, like I said, is my favorite chalk company by far. They’re giving you guys some pretty awesome discounts over at www.frictionlabs.com/trainingbeta. Basically, what they’re giving you is my favorite kind of their chalk, which is Unicorn Dust. It’s all the same stuff and it all has a high content of magnesium carbonate, which makes it the best. The one that I like the most is Unicorn Dust, which is the finest one. It coats my hands the best. They’re giving you guys a 10-ounce bag for $19 instead of $37. Now, I know that that sounds really expensive but honestly, I think it’s worth it. It’s just like buying a really good pair of shoes instead of a not-so-good pair of shoes. You guys all know what a difference that can make. They have that and they have a sample pack for you guys which is usually $17.50 and it’s $10 so you can try out all three of their kinds of chalk. I would go over to www.frictionlabs.com/trainingbeta so you can get these deals. They change these up sometimes so if you don’t see what I’ve just explained they’ll have something else awesome for you.

So that’s Friction Labs. I hope you guys like them as much as I do. Now, back to the interview.

 

Neely Quinn: How long are you giving yourself on The Nest?

 

Ethan Pringle: Before I give up?

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, or how long do you have in Vegas?

 

Ethan Pringle: I have most of the next six or seven weeks so I have a pretty good chunk of time left. If it doesn’t happen this season I’ll just come back next season because I really want to do it. If I don’t do it this season I’ll probably try to dedicate a good chunk of time before the winter to training for it. I’ve really noticed that if I was just a little bit stronger, just a little bit fitter, it might go down just a little bit easier.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, I’m guessing this feels like a little less of an undertaking for you than Jumbo Love. Am I right or am I wrong?

 

Ethan Pringle: It is, yeah. I think one of the biggest reasons that this is less of an undertaking than Jumbo Love is just because I don’t necessarily need anyone else. I don’t need a belayer, I don’t need to borrow my brother’s 4Runner, and it just seems a lot more chill in a lot of ways. Bouldering just feels a bit less-pressurized than, like, Jumbo Love for instance. It’s been good. I probably spent, over the course of the eight-year period that I tried Jumbo Love off and on I probably spent, 40 or so days up at the Third Tier of Clark Mountain. I’ve spent, I don’t know, 12 or 13 at The Nest so I have quite a bit of catching-up to do before I get to Jumbo Love levels. I don’t know. It’s like I don’t think that that many people try a boulder problem for 40 days, ever. I know that a handful of people do and I know that they’re out there. I’ve definitely heard stories of people trying boulder problems for that long and if that’s how long The Nest takes me, that’s what I’ll dedicate to it because I’m gonna do it someday. [laughs]

 

Neely Quinn: You seem to be totally okay with staying for the long haul. I think I read somewhere that you were on Jumbo Love 80 or 90 times?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I think that’s around the number of tries I put into it over the eight or so years that I tried it. Off and on, I probably spent four or five actual seasons on it but I’ve tried to calculate, as best as I can, the number of tries or the number of times that I’ve been on it. I think, by my best estimation, it’s probably around 90.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, and I think you said that just in the last season alone it was 35 or 40? That was, like, the big season where you really progressed.

 

Ethan Pringle: Right, right, right. This past season/this past spring, 2015, was the longest prolonged period of time I’ve ever put into it and it paid off.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, obviously.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah.

 

Neely Quinn: Now, what would you say to, I don’t know, some of the trainers that I’ve talked to, who/they’re like, “If you can’t do a problem or a route within, whatever – 5-10 tries, then you need to go home and train?”

 

Ethan Pringle: [laughs] I would say that’s total nonsense.

 

Neely Quinn: Tell me more.

 

Ethan Pringle: I think, so, that’s kind of, like, when you watch videos of Adam Ondra on La Dura Dura, for instance. I remember some quote where he was like, “Oh, I’ve spent two weeks here this season and I still haven’t done it and I feel like I’m just getting weaker. I need to go home and train.” I think that’s one of the big prevailing theories about rock climbing is that if you’re not strong enough to do it in a handful of tries, you need to go train. There’s so much to learn on just one move. There’s so much to learn on an entire rock climb, whether it’s five moves or 500, you know. Whether it’s The Nest or whether it’s the Dawn Wall, or whatever, there’s just so many pieces of information that fit together to make, like, a flawless send or just a send.

We’re always – I mean, the night before I went and did Jumbo Love I went to this party at Rob’s house, Rob Jensen’s house, in Vegas. I only stayed for an hour because I knew that I needed to go to sleep early because I needed to get enough sleep to wake up early to go to the park the next day. I was only there for a brief period of time but I saw Ramsey when I was there. I was kind of/I was so excited because I knew how close I was to Jumbo Love so, like, everyone who asked I was pretty eager to tell them, you know, about my progress and stuff and that I was probably going to send soon. Just talking to Ramsey a little bit about – because he’s one of those guys who have invested a lot of time into long-term projects and stuff and he was like, “Yeah, I mean, you know this at this point but you haven’t seen even a fraction of your true potential as a climber until you’ve tried something a hundred times.” And I really believe that, especially considering my experience with Jumbo Love, my more recent experience on The Nest. You don’t know even a fraction of what you’re capable of as a climber until you’ve tried something/until you’ve invested a whole year into something, or two years, five years, you know? It’s like, it took Tommy and Kevin what, eight years? Nine years to do the Dawn Wall, something like seven years, I guess, is what I think Kevin said in your podcast? That’s a 3,000-foot rock climb. Imagine what you could learn on a 100-foot rock climb if you invested seven years into it.

I’m not saying that everyone should go invest seven years into some project. I’m just saying five or 10 tries is nothing. It’s so minor. Yeah, the best way to train for something is just to try it. I think at a certain point, yeah, is it helpful to go train for/do like a dedicated six-week training cycle for one specific climb? For sure, it’s helpful. It might help you send faster but you’re simply not going to do something that’s near your limit unless you put in the time on it. Yeah, it’s amazing to see what Adam Ondra does and what Jimmy Webb does, sending things first try, cause they’re just so well-prepared and such well-rounded rock climbers that they have such a base of experience and of trying hard, basically, that any move/almost any move they encounter, they’re like, “I’ve done something much, much harder than this thousands of times and this is not bad for me.” They can just move through things with confidence but I think – what would happen if Jimmy spent 50 days trying one boulder problem? I mean, he’d probably climb like a V17.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, it’s true.

 

Ethan Pringle: Or who knows? Maybe not, but I feel like the theory that, if you don’t send something in a dozen or less tries that you need to go train, is pretty bogus. Although, for practicality’s sake, most people don’t have the sort of time I have to invest in one single project, consistently at least, unless they have a local crag where they have something really hard for them to try. So I mean, I’m in the privileged position where I can just stay in Vegas for an entire winter and try the same boulder problem. Most people don’t have that kind of time so for them, you know, I would say if you really want to do a climb, don’t sacrifice a day of training for that climb. Just go get on the climb, unless you’re feeling super beat down and you just know that you have nothing left in your muscles or something. If you have the energy to go try it, try it. That’s going to prepare you for it more than anything else will.

 

Neely Quinn: But what if – okay, I get this for you, because you’re a really strong climber and basically anything that’s out there in the world right now that’s developed, you could probably get on and work the moves and do the moves. But what about a person who’s like a 5.12- climber who’s like, “I want to do this .13b so I’m gonna get on it.” What do you think about that? Where do you draw the line?

 

Ethan Pringle: I think that, I mean, I don’t think it’s impossible for a 5.12- climber to make the leap to 5.13, depending on – it’s all about what you can talk yourself into, basically, at the end of the day. What do you need to do to talk yourself into sending a particular route or boulder problem? You basically just need to believe that you can, and whatever you need to do to get to that place is whatever you need to do to send the climb. Whether it’s trying that particular climb or whether it’s going out and climbing 200, 5.12s and 10, 5.13a’s before you get on the .13b, that might make the process of talking yourself into sending the .13b that much easier but it’s just like, at the end of the day, it’s – what do you need to do to talk yourself into having the confidence to say, “Okay, I can do this. This is possible for me and I’m going to keep trying until I do it?”

What are you willing to sacrifice to get to that place? It’s like, are you willing to drag someone out to your project every weekend or whatever day you have off, every day, to go try it? Are you willing to suspend your disbelief that you can’t do it to just push through that and keep trying? I think that’s the biggest hurdle that people run into, like, “Oh, you know, I’ve been trying this climb or this boulder problem for x-number of days or x-number of minutes. I just can’t do it.” People are so quick to judge themselves against some particular piece of rock or some particular challenge, whether it’s climbing or not. It’s how good, or how willing, are you to just suspend your disbelief and consider the possibility that it’s something that’s within your ability?

So, I mean, yeah, for someone who’s climbing 5.12- and they want to climb a .13b or a particular .13b, they should get on it and see how it feels. Just be open to the possibility that it’s possible for them. If they get on it and it feels freaking ridiculous and they have no possible chance, well, maybe they should go build a base of 5.12s and 5.13- and that’s probably going to be more fun for them than epic-ing on the same .13b for a year and a half or something. But, epic-ing on the .13b for a year and a half might get them the send, so if they’re willing to/if that’s what they’re willing to do to talk themselves into it, that’s what they should do.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Got it.

 

Ethan Pringle: That’s my two cents. [laughs]

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. I would like to know a little more about your preparation and your process for Jumbo Love.

 

Ethan Pringle: Okay. My preparation and my process. Just, considering the last year, or…

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, let’s do the last year…

 

Ethan Pringle: Because I started trying it in 2007.

 

Neely Quinn: So, I understand that there were a lot of years/there were some years when you didn’t even go up there. I would like to know: what were you doing the winter and fall before you went up there?

 

Ethan Pringle: Okay, so, I think the biggest thing that I did to prepare for Jumbo Love was probably to climb on it for a good number of years and just know it super well, like, know where the cruxes were, how hard the moves were for me, and just be really familiar with the climb itself. I had probably 50 or so tries on it before I even got there this last spring. Besides that, having 20 years of climbing experience under my belt and, not just climbing, but bouldering and sport climbing specifically. I’d say I do more of those two things than any other discipline by far. Then, in terms of just the season before I got to Clark Mountain to try Jumbo Love again, my ex-girlfriend Georgie was super supportive and she knew how much it meant to me to go try it and try to finish it off and everything. I think she had a lot more confidence in me than I did at certain times.

When we were in Sardinia together, October 2014, I was like, “You know, I really want to go to Spain this winter and have like a month there and just train, basically, for Jumbo Love.” In February of 2015 I went with a buddy from the Bay Area to Spain and stayed there for six weeks and sort of/actually epic-ed on this project that I had, this thing called La Reina Mora. I basically, yeah, climbed overhanging, sharp limestone in Siurana for six weeks before I went to Clark Mountain. I think that prepared me really well for it, actually.

When I was in Spain and I was trying La Reina Mora I was sort of comparing myself a lot to how I would need, or how I thought I would need, to feel to send Jumbo Love. I was like, “Jesus, this .14c/d route is demanding all of me. How am I going to get to Vegas and expect to do well on a .15b? That just doesn’t seem realistic at all,” but I sent La Reina Mora my last day of the trip and it was one of the most emotional experiences of my climbing career. That didn’t necessarily mean I was talked into sending Jumbo Love at that point but I was willing to give it a shot and Georgie was all in for it and our friends, Spenser and Vikki – the RV Project is their video outfit and they’re really good friends of ours – they were like, 100% committed to filming me on it. I was like, “Alright. I’ve got the support system, I have enough motivation,” I wouldn’t say my motivation was through the roof. I was pretty scared, actually, but I think physically, just climbing on La Reina Mora and climbing overhanging limestone for six weeks before Vegas prepared me pretty well. I didn’t touch plastic once.

 

Neely Quinn: That’s pretty awesome. [laughs] That’s so crazy.

 

Ethan Pringle: Maybe once or twice, when I first got back from Spain, but I was probably home for 10 days after Spain before we shuttled down to Vegas. I probably climbed in the gym two, three, or four times or something [laughs] then went down to Vegas and started rallying up to Clark, banging my head against that wall.

 

Neely Quinn: Do you do any sort of training? Before we started this interview I saw a hangboard behind you.

 

Ethan Pringle: That’s Audrey and Seth’s.

 

Neely Quinn: [laughs] You don’t know what it is? You’re like, “What’s that thing?”

 

Ethan Pringle: It’s a sweet hangboard! I’ve used it a few times. I’ve done a few Rock Prodigy hangboard workouts in the past few months but never on this board, actually.

 

Neely Quinn: So you don’t fingerboard?

 

Ethan Pringle: I have but I would say I don’t. That’s pretty accurate. [laughs]

 

Neely Quinn: And you don’t do any other training, like, you don’t do anything with weights. Do you do any cardio? Do you do anything? Campusing?

 

Ethan Pringle: I’m just gonna say no.

 

Neely Quinn: You’re an inspiration to all of us.

 

Ethan Pringle: [laughs] To lazy people across the world?

 

Neely Quinn: Well, clearly not lazy. So, when you were in Spain working on La Reina Mora, how many days on a week were you?

 

Ethan Pringle: I was trying pretty consistently. There were times when I would go beat my fingers to hell in some pocket and I would need to take, like, an extra day off or something. I think I was there for almost 90 days and I climbed, like, 60 of those days. Oh wait – no! 90 days? No, no, no. Wait – I was probably there for, wait – six weeks is not 90 days. My math was very off there. I was probably there for, like, 45 days?

 

Neely Quinn: We’re so smart.

 

Ethan Pringle: We’re geniuses at math right now. I was probably there for 45 days and I probably climbed for 30 of them. I probably climbed for two out of three days.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay.

 

Ethan Pringle: I was pretty/I felt like my body was pretty resilient to overhanging limestone sport climbing at that point.

 

Neely Quinn: When you were climbing, would you just go out and project everyday or did you have volume days or did you do any sort of drills outside?

 

Ethan Pringle: I had a few volume days outside, yeah, and a few days in the latter half of the trip, when I was just struggling a lot on La Reina Mora, I took a couple breaks and just climbed a bunch/as many .12s and .13s and I could. For the most part, I was just projecting, trying La Reina Mora once or twice a day. Yeah, just on that.

 

Neely Quinn: That’s so crazy, because I feel that is what happens to me. How you said when Adam Ondra goes out and he’s projecting for two weeks and then he’s like, “Oh, I feel so weak now,” I feel like that sort of happens to me sometimes, too. You didn’t feel like that, obviously, like you went and go on something <unclear>.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, the plateaus that we hit and those sort of periods of time are more psychological than we realize. We think, yeah, our bodies are tired of trying the same moves over and over and you’re using very specific muscle groups for every move and that’s definitely a realistic concern, is to take enough rest that your body fully recovers or recovers enough to where you can comfortably climb on the route without pain or whatever. I think it’s more that we just get tired of the routine and the failure and the prospect of trying again just seems like such a chore and it’s just really hard to keep talking ourselves into believing that it’s possible. That’s definitely where I was at in Spain towards the end of the trip, even though I had sent the route, I had nearly done it 10 days before I did it. I had sort of hit this big psychological plateau and that’s the same sort of plateau that I had with Jumbo Love for a good number of years.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, let’s talk about that. I know that when you – I read Georgie’s article about you and your sort of process on Jumbo Love and while you were in Spain. It sounded like, first of all, you were going through some emotional stuff at that time, like you were struggling with depression, right?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah. I mean, I think my struggle with depression is ongoing and it’s probably more about how much I pay attention to it than how much it’s actually affecting me. I’m sure it’s affecting me a pretty consistent amount all the time but it’s just, like, how much do I notice it or how much energy can I devote to paying attention to it? I think that/I’d say in the more intense periods of my life, like trying La Reina Mora or trying Jumbo Love, where I just feel really tested and I feel emotionally like I’m popping at the seams, those are the times when I have to pay much more attention to it than I would, say, just when I’m cruising and life’s a little easier.

 

Neely Quinn: So, how does it affect you in your climbing and in your life in general?

 

Ethan Pringle: A great deal. I mean, I’d say it all depends on what I’m going through in life. Well, for instance in Spain, I was just dealing with a lot of emotional stuff. My dad had this really bad stroke a couple of years ago that left him wheelchair-bound and sort of bedridden. He’s still totally ‘there’ mentally and he has all of his mental faculties and he’s still the same old guy and I’m really thankful for that, but when I’m away it’s kind of hard because I just know that he’s kind of just trapped in his wheelchair and bed and sort of trapped in his own body. When I’m gone for a month or six-week long periods I start to just feel this really intense guilt and that’s a big part of it.

Yeah, just sort of my own emotions. It’s easy to kind of bury them on a day-to-day basis and I think it gets to a point where you’re just sort of busting at the seams with pent-up emotion and, depending on what’s going on in your life but, when I was in Spain I was struggling with being away from Georgie and our relationship stuff and my dad and just a lot of confusion and then, on top of that, this route La Reina Mora was testing me like no other route had in a long time. Meanwhile, there’s all these really strong climbers in Spain. Jonathan came and all these local guys, Danny Andrada, Edu – like, I’m just surrounded by these mega pro athletes. Awesome people, super nice, all of them super nice and super encouraging. The camaraderie over there is awesome. It’s like in no other place, really. Still, it’s like it kind of can play into your insecurities if you start comparing yourself with other people or comparing yourself to past selves or whatever, or comparing yourself to the version of yourself that you want to be but that you think you’re not. All of that insecurity and pressure can really get the better of you and it will. I think it happens to everyone who tests themselves at anything, whether it’s climbing or some other thing. It’s just intense. [laughs]

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah.

 

Ethan Pringle: I don’t know if I/I don’t even remember what your question was but…

 

Neely Quinn: No, it’s okay. That was really good insight into you. First of all, I’m really sorry about your dad, and…

 

Ethan Pringle: It’s okay. It’s a part of life, I guess.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, and I can imagine in the back of your head you’re like, “I’m failing on this route. Why am I even here?” You know, all of these things going through like, “I should be with my dad,” and so that’s kind of holding you back.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, it’s easy to feel like you’re wasting your time, basically, and however much you think this climb or this lifestyle is your true purpose, it’s just easy to think that it’s much less meaningful than other things you could be doing or other people you could perceive yourself to be or whatever.

 

Neely Quinn: I think that a lot of people on some level can relate. We all have our own struggles on a spectrum.

 

Ethan Pringle: Totally. Everyone struggles, everyone suffers, and I don’t think we all/it’s all relative, you know? It’s all happening to us under the surface, in a way, and it’s not always the easiest thing to share with other people and on top of that, it’s not always easy to share with yourself. It’s much more convenient to bury your emotions than it is to pay attention to them sometimes, especially if you’re having to pay attention to some really difficult rock climb that you’re being challenged by.

In the end, what helped me send, what allowed me to send La Reina Mora, was the last day I was there I sort of just checked-in with myself and realized just how much I was suffering at my own hands and how much I’d struggled. Also, how dedicated I was to this route. I gave myself a ton of credit for that and I was just paying attention to my emotions and what was going on inside myself. It sort of cracked me open in this way that allowed me to climb the route. I wouldn’t have been able to climb it if I hadn’t of gone through that sort of emotional transformation the last day that I was there.

 

Neely Quinn: So you’re saying that you actually let yourself look inside and feel what was going on and sort of acknowledged yourself?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah. That’s exactly what was going on. I feel like it happened that day because it had to. It was my last day, I was out of time, and it wasn’t even about – I don’t know if subconsciously it was about sending the route, but it was just really a look back on this intense six weeks of my life. It was just – what happened, basically, is I warmed up with James, actually, and I was just in this funk but I was sort of acknowledging how funky it was and all these different feelings and stuff. It just brought everything that I was feeling to the surface and it was just vastly helpful, for me, for my emotional state in general but also for performing on this rock climb. Once I sort of tapped into those emotions and let them out it didn’t matter whether I was going to send the climb or not.

 

Neely Quinn: So you relieved the pressure on yourself.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I think so. I didn’t feel any pressure. It was crazy. It was the first time that I had tied in below that route ever that I felt no pressure whatsoever to send it. It didn’t matter if I was going to send it or not. What mattered was that I had sort of paid attention to my feelings and my emotions and gave them room to breathe. I sort of really checked in with myself in a way that I had been trying to do for weeks but wasn’t quite able to do.

 

Neely Quinn: So, did you have a similar process on Jumbo Love?

 

Ethan Pringle: Similar, similar. It wasn’t quite as climactic as that but I did go through that process several times over in the course of the season last year, where, like I said earlier, I was just trying my best to keep the hope alive and keep talking myself into the possibility that I could do this route. There were times where I would hit a plateau or I would feel like I was hitting a plateau when really I was making small bits of progress here and there. Sometimes or some days were as good as others and some days I would fall at the first crux, after making it through the first crux, or whatever. There were definitely – you just suspend your disbelief long enough to tie in, boot up, and get on the climb. Once you’re on the climb you’ve done the work.

I think once you’re climbing on whatever it is that you were afraid to get on, that’s/most of the work is done at that point. All you can do is just react and try your best and that’s what I kept doing. I would have these little breakthroughs and the one time, I remember one night that stands out. It’s probably one of the best days of climbing that I’ve ever had even though I didn’t send the route that day, it was one of the more memorable experiences I’ve ever had climbing. I think we were there and I had tried once, then Spenser went up Jumbo Pumping Hate which is the left variation of Jumbo Love, which is a really classic .14a. He was sort of up there for a while because he was figuring out the moves and stuff and I was just belaying and sitting on the belay ledge, laying down and stuff. I’d sort of given up on trying anymore that day at that point. He lowered and we were talking about doing a rope swing because he had gone to the anchors of Jumbo Pumping Hate and I think Vikki was going to do the rope swing and I was kinda like/they could tell I was considering or toying with the idea of trying again. They were like, “Oh, you should try it again! You should try it again!” and I was like, “Ah, I don’t know if I feel like it. We should just – just do the rope swing. It’s fine.” They were like, “No, no, no. Just try again. You have to try.” I was like, “Oh, screw it. Why not? It doesn’t mean anything. However I do, it won’t matter.”

I think just having gone to that place of giving up for the day completely really let my expectations disappear and I got through the first crux, I got to the rest, the hand jam rest after the first crux, and I felt this feeling that I hadn’t felt there ever before. It was like confidence. I was like, “Woah. I feel good here, like I could just stick the crux right now,” and sure enough, I climbed really efficiently through the next few pieces of climbing and got to the crux move and gave it everything I had and I stuck it. It was super emotional because I had just been telling myself for eight years, basically, that I would never do that.

 

Neely Quinn: So it was another of those moments when all of your expectations were gone.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I think it’s just that lowering of expectations. Well, not necessarily lowering but letting go of them.

 

Neely Quinn: Do you feel like now that you’ve had the experience with Jumbo Love and La Reina Mora that you’re more able to tap into that at will? And can you tell me how to do it? [laughs]

 

Ethan Pringle: Well, I’d say it’s pretty helpful to really pay attention to what you’re feeling and how you’re feeling and just let it happen. If you’re feeling frustrated or you’re feeling angry then just be frustrated or be angry. Ride those waves of emotion and also just let yourself get talked into trying again because you never know what’s going to happen. I think, yeah, I’ve talked to a lot of people. Chris, after I sent Jumbo Love – it was cool. Chris called me and stuff. I think he was in Oregon climbing that tree and he told me that the time before he sent La Dura Dura he had a pretty bad try on it, just like I had on Jumbo Love the time before I sent it. We were sort of talking about how sometimes you need a shitty try to let go of your expectations and just give up a little bit and come back to it with a more fresh perspective, or just with less of a perspective.

I think all we can do is try in the end of the day. As long as you get on it and try your best, that’s all you can do. You have to give yourself a ton of credit for that. I think the way you talk to yourself, and the story you tell yourself, about how you compare yourself to whatever you’re trying to do or trying to be plays a large role in your takeaway of the whole experience. Not even necessarily in whether you send or not, but I’d say just feel whatever it is that you’re feeling and pay attention to those emotions and let them breathe.

 

Neely Quinn: Got it.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, and just keep trying. Try your best to keep the belief alive.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. No big deal. Easy.

 

Ethan Pringle: Done.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so…

 

Ethan Pringle: No, it’s a lot harder than I’m making it seem. I was super lucky to have Georgie and Spenser and Vikki up there with me at Clark Mountain this year. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without them.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, and do you see anything huge like that in your future? Another big route?

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah. I mean I definitely still have a ton of passion for sport climbing and I guess I’ve sort of gotten into the mode of projecting now. I feel like most of the trips I’ve been on this year and last year were all about hard projects and I don’t know – I can’t think of a specific route offhand that I want to do more than any other in the world than I did on Jumbo Love. I can think of a few that I want to try but…

 

Neely Quinn: Like the Dawn Wall?

 

Ethan Pringle: [laughs] I don’t know if I have a ton of motivation to try the Dawn Wall. Other routes on El Cap I’m psyched to try but I don’t know if/none of them seem quite as serious as the Dawn Wall, but other sport climbs and boulder problems for sure, and other big wall challenges. Definitely other big wall challenges. The Dawn Wall seems like a special one, for sure. I don’t know if I’m willing to dedicate the/I don’t know if I’m passionate enough about that particular challenge, to dedicate the time and energy that it would require. But who knows? Maybe my motivation will change and I’ll get psyched on it or maybe Adam Ondra will come flash it and it will seem a little more possible.

 

Neely Quinn: [laughs] Right.

 

Ethan Pringle: I’m really inspired by El Cap but I just/I don’t know if I’m inspired by it in the same way to try the hardest pitches I’ve ever done on El Cap. I think El Cap, to me, is something that’s just really cool to ascend. It was cool to do Free Rider. I had a ton of fun on that but just being on that wall for 36 hours is a lot of work. It’s super fun but I can’t imagine having to climb, whatever, 10, 5.13 and 8, 5.14 pitches on El Cap.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah. No thanks.

 

Ethan Pringle: Consecutively. That seems crazy and super crimpy, super technical, and it just seems like the most stressful and demanding climbing you could possibly think of to do for that amount of time.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah. You can find something more fun to do.

 

Ethan Pringle: But super awesome effort by those guys. I mean, I was so inspired. I honestly didn’t think they were ever going to do it so amazing effort.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah. It was pretty awesome. Great strides for climbers there.

 

Ethan Pringle: Yeah, I think it opened up a lot of doors for what’s possible in climbing.

 

Neely Quinn: Well, I really appreciate your time. I’m not going to take any more of it but I appreciate you being so candid and talking about these things that are kind of hard to talk about.

 

Ethan Pringle: It’s good. I mean, it helps me pay attention to them so I think sometimes you need to talk about it with someone else to really give it mind. So yeah, no problem. It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah. Thank you and good luck on The Nest.

 

Ethan Pringle: Thank you. Yeah, I’m still psyched so…

 

Neely Quinn: Well thanks again.

 

Ethan Pringle: You’re welcome.

 

Neely Quinn: I hope you enjoyed that interview with Ethan Pringle. I did. Actually, I just looked up whether or not he sent The Nest and today, on February 24, 2016, he had on Facebook/he said, “So close. Petty times. My pendulum of confidence swings back and forth. The seconds become minutes, the minutes become hours, become days, and weeks, and months of my life on this boulder. Infatuation and love eventually turn to fear and loathing and you can’t help but ask yourself, ‘Is it worth it?,’ but the way the sun hits its curvy edges this time of year it’s hard not to admire.” And he posted a photo of The Nest.

I do hope you send soon, Ethan, and we’re all behind you.

Coming up on the podcast I have Jorg Verhoeven. I did an interview with him about a month ago. We talk about his World Cup training and how he doesn’t do too much ‘training’ training – he does a lot of drills on boulders and a lot of bouldering and some route climbing. It was interesting to see how someone who’s done hundreds of World Cups, literally, trains.

If you want more help with your own training, remember that we do have our training programs on the site. Our major ones are subscription programs, one of which is for boulderers and one of which is for route climbers, however I’m finding that a lot of people are using the bouldering program in order to train for routes and even vice versa depending on what facilities they have in their area. For instance, one of our most loyal customers and members of our community, Tom Hall, wrote in and said – he’s on the bouldering training program and he said, “Training Beta feels like a community and has totally helped me become a stronger climber. Just having the workouts written down gives me much more motivation to train. I find the podcast fascinating so please keep it up.” Thanks, Tom. “I signed up for the bouldering strength and power program as soon as it came out and 70-something weeks later, I’m still on it and really getting into this third cycle of training. Today’s workout of 4x4s combined with circuit training was brilliant. This year I expect to achieve my life goal of climbing 5.13b. Very exciting, so thanks for that. All the best, Tom.”

I really appreciate that and I told Tom that I would love to have him on the podcast after he sends so that we can talk about all of his training and successes. Anyway, if you want to try out that program for yourself you can go to www.trainingbeta.com and we have a ‘training programs’ tab at the top of the page.

That’s it for me today. Thank you so much for listening to the end. I appreciate your support and if you want to give me or the podcast a review you can go to iTunes and find us there. I will talk to you next week.

 

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