[laughs] and send it. It’s a really long route and so it’s going to take a lot of fitness on my part, so we talk about how I should train. I also ask him for some specific details on how you can train, how we can all train, overall fitness, and how he tests people to see where they’re at when he starts working with them.

I liked this talk a lot. I learned a lot and every time I talk to Kris in these episodes, I’m just kind of blown away by his knowledge on these topics. I hope you enjoy it, and if you want to work with Kris yourself, all of our programs, well, not all of them, but several of them were written by Kris Peters.

If you want very specific suggestions for what you should do when you go into the gym, we have our bouldering program and our route training program, but also you can work with him one-on-one if you want. All of that is over at www.trainingbeta.com and here is Kris Peters. Enjoy the interview!

 

Neely Quinn: Alright, hey Kris. How’s it going?

 

Kris Peters: How’s it going, Neely?

 

Neely Quinn: It’s going pretty well. Thanks, again, for doing this. This should be good conversation, especially because I’m in a fitness stage myself. Today we’re talking about fitness, how it applies to climbing, how you assess people’s fitness, and hopefully we’ll get to how people can train fitness.

 

Kris Peters: Sure.

 

Neely Quinn: Sound good?

 

Kris Peters: Sounds great.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. Let’s start with the definitions, of sorts. What is climbing fitness? Are we talking about aerobic fitness?

 

Kris Peters: I think climbing fitness, for me, when I work with any of my athletes, it’s just the ability to perform well, recover, if you’re pumped, the ability to be able to grab a hold and active recovery on the wall. Just being able to produce more and more output, based off of your conditioning for that sport.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so what does aerobic conditioning have to do with all of that?

 

Kris Peters: Sometimes, the reason I’ll use aerobic conditioning with some of my clients is to, A) just kind of see them out of their comfort zone a little bit. I think a lot of times aerobic fitness can help translate for any athlete, just building a healthier body. I think, at the same time, when I have athletes do sprints or things like that, really elevating their heart rate and just training their bodies to be comfortable and learning how to somewhat suffer, I think it’s a really crucial thing for any athlete. It’s learning how to really push their bodies so when you are climbing, and you are on the wall, and you’re outside, and you’re at your limit, it’s kind of like you’re used to that feeling and your body can perform well under that type of stress.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, that’s interesting that you say that. I just did a fitness workout, like a circuit workout, yesterday morning and it was pretty brutal. What I realized in that workout, for the first time, is that I could train breathing and suffering while I was doing that workout, on the ground, having nothing to do with climbing. I was just like, “Okay, this is how I’m going to feel so I need to breathe through this.”

 

Kris Peters: Exactly. I mean, it’s really no different. Anyone who’s suffering, like, biking or running, it’s the same type of feeling when you’re on the wall. If you can train your body to adapt to that and be able to handle that type of stress, it’s really going to help improve whatever sport or activity you’re trying to do.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so I think that a lot of boulderers probably think to themselves, “I don’t need fitness. I just need power and strength.” What is your response to that?

 

Kris Peters: Everyone’s different. Personally, I think that any and every athlete needs fitness. It doesn’t have to be running, you know? Fitness is also defined as going to the weight room or doing some sort of cross training. Really, any athlete that says, “I don’t need that,” if they tried it, they might see the benefits from it and they might be able to see, “Oh, interesting.” I just had a client the other day. He climbs V11 and we did some fitness-specific stuff, and he realized he was very, very weak at certain movements. His body was very weak in certain areas and he was just strong in his climbing-specific movements. At the same time, we found a lot of injuries and a lot of issues with his body, so we were able to address a lot of those things.

Sometimes it’s not necessarily just going into the gym and doing a circuit, but just addressing parts of your body that can help you stay injury-free – that’s never a bad thing to do.

 

Neely Quinn: So it sounds like when you say “fitness” and I think ‘fitness,’ it’s two different things. When you think ‘fitness,’ you think your whole body being strong and being able to have resiliency throughout a session and throughout a day.

 

Kris Peters: Yes.

 

Neely Quinn: Because when I think ‘fitness’ I think of runners having a great VO2 max or something. A good lung capacity, so I guess we’re talking about two different things. I want to talk about both of those things.

How do you test people’s fitness?

 

Kris Peters: It depends on the athlete, but most of the time what I’ll do is I’ll check just body mechanics. Let’s try/I’ll watch you just jog, or I’ll watch you just do lateral movements, or I’ll watch you do a box jump, push-ups, planks, pull-ups – just things to kind of see how they function and how their body operates and some of those movements. You can really see and tell weaknesses and overcompensation for an athlete. Then, I do like to see what an athlete’s made of so I will make a circuit, probably something similar to what you went through, Neely, of just high intensity to see what they can handle.

I’ll use this one client as an example. The other day we started a circuit. We had four rounds and he went through the first two exercises and sat down, and almost passed out. He only had two exercises for 30 seconds each, and there was pull-ups and Bosu ball push-ups and nothing – it wasn’t like burpees or sprinting. His body just was not used to – and he’s a boulderer – his body’s not used to any type of fitness/high intensity workout. He goes to the gym, boulders, tries really hard, sits down for 5-10 minutes, tries hard again, sits down, so it’s just, for me, I just try to expose things that I feel like can benefit that client. A lot of times, yeah, circuit training. It can be running, it can be jump rope, it can be strength training like overhead press, it can be a deadlift – I just try to see where this person’s at, you know? It varies, depending on age, level of the athlete, and so on.

 

Neely Quinn: Would you actually mind describing what that circuit workout was like? I know that you just said what the exact exercise were, but can you just go through exactly what you had him do?

 

Kris Peters: Sure. Yeah, I can do that. What I had the athlete do was just a push-pull workout. It was 30 seconds of pull-ups, 30 seconds of push-ups, 30 seconds of bicep curls, and then 30 seconds of Bosu ball push-ups again. Essentially, just trying to work on the pulling motion of a climber and hitting those opposing muscles, but I also think push-ups is a very good cross training movement for climbers. Just working on shoulders and that core strength. That was it. We were going to do that for one round, 30 seconds each, 5-seconds rest in between each exercise, and when he completes one round he’d get about a minute to two minutes rest. We were going to do that 3-4 times and we made it through two exercises and he got light-headed and dizzy, and the session was over.

It’s a really simple, basic, fitness routine. I didn’t know this client. It was my first time working with him so I just was trying to figure out how strong, how fit he was, because this person is super motivated, wants to climb V12/V13. Through that session, the stuff that we did, I was able to tell him a lot of his weaknesses, physically. He’s suffering from a lot of finger injuries and sometimes I correlate finger injuries to a lack of muscle and strength, because you use your fingers so much to crimp and pull than using muscles to activate when you’re doing those movements.

It was a good session. He learned a lot about his body and he wants to continue.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, that sounds like a hard workout. Thirty seconds, five seconds rest and then…yeah. It sounds hard. Is that something that you would suggest to climbers across the board? Doing something like that?

 

Kris Peters: Yeah, and you can even play with it. You can do: go climb this route twice on your onsight level, then run upstairs and do this fitness routine, and let’s just go back and forth. Then I try to see: how much does your climbing suffer from trying to do fitness? How much does it change when you do some push-ups and pull-ups between your sets? You can kind of mess with it and have fun with it. Again, every person is different, every scenario can be different.

I had a 13-year old crusher boulderer, a female, the other day and our workout was much different, and she was extremely fit. Like, wicked, wicked, fit. We were doing explosive squat jumps with a barbell, she was just a monster, you know? Then you have this 23-year old V11 boulderer and we couldn’t even do push-ups for 30 seconds. Everyone’s different. It’s just depending on that person’s abilities and what they focus on.

 

Neely Quinn: Actually, can you tell me what that workout was with the 13-year old girl?

 

Kris Peters: Yeah, so we were focusing on trying to make her more powerful, so I took her through some different assessments. We did realize her shoulders were very weak. Most women’s shoulders are – not all women out there, but most of them do suffer from shoulder weakness, so we went through a circuit of that but then we worked on her explosiveness. She’s really into speed climbing, so really being able to explode through her legs. I put a barbell on her back and put a little bit of weight on, and we did 10 sets of squat jumps with a barbell and she was amazing. I mean, she would explode through the ground, she would land softly back in her squat, she would do 10 reps and that was too easy for her, so then we did 20 reps. So, again, it’s a very impressive workout by a young comp climber. All she does is climb, but her body – she’s just naturally gifted for athleticism, so some climbers are really good athletes outside of climbing. Some aren’t, so that’s what makes the fitness stuff so much more challenging for them.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, let’s talk about me. [laughs]

 

Kris Peters: Let’s do it! Love it!

 

Neely Quinn: So, I have this project, right? And I think of fitness as what I have to gain in order to do this project. I realize that I have, before the first rest of this 80ish-foot route that’s at my limit, there are 42 moves to get to the rest. That’s a lot of moves for me. I’m wondering, besides climbing a lot on the treadwall or doing triples or whatever at the gym, what would help me? How can I get better?

 

Kris Peters: I think, from working with you before, Neely, I think the biggest thing for you is making you uncomfortable, and making you kind of be out of your comfort zone. What I would do for you is have you do 20-30 minute circuits and have you do as many rounds as you can, you know? So I would set-up: okay, Neely, you’re going to run a quarter mile as fast as you can, you’re going to get off and you’re going to do push-jerks, you’re going to do push-ups/ring push-ups, and pull-ups or whatever, and I’m going to make you go through that and get as many rounds as you can get done in 20-30 minutes. Each week, repeat that and try and see if you can get more reps in or more rounds in each week, to see if your fitness is getting any better.

A route that long is a physical toll and it’s a mental toll. It’s just like, how much can your body endure for that amount of time? So again, the climbing specific stuff, yes. I’ve seen you on the treadwall and we’ve done that before, but I think for you, your biggest thing is just being a beast physically, not just – because you have strong fingers, you’re a great climber, you have great form, you’ve been doing it your whole life – you just need to be a better overall athlete with your physical abilities, and I think you’ll be just fine for that route.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, got it. I think you’re right on. I think that’s totally accurate, is being uncomfortable. I think that that’s something that a lot of people lack, is the ability to really frickin’ try hard, even when you’re tired and it hurts. Not hurt in a bad way, but…

 

Kris Peters: And a lot of climbers have a hard time doing that. They have a hard time putting themselves in a position to be uncomfortable and tired, if they don’t/not all climbers enjoy that. It’s a hard thing to do mentally and to make yourself push that hard physically.

 

Neely Quinn: And with that 20-30 minute, I think that’s called an AMRAP, right? As many rounds as possible?

 

Kris Peters: As many rounds as possible, yep.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so you would have me do how many exercises?

 

Kris Peters: Probably between 4-6, and the big kicker for you is probably going to be that run of just really getting your heart rate up high, so I would really have you running hard for that quarter mile, like, really pushing your heart. That would be, like, the main thing that would eat up a lot of that time, and the ability to get off that treadmill and be able to perform your exercises and not suck, you know? That’s the thing I look for, is when the athlete stops sucking. Like, “Okay, that was a horrible round. You look terrible. You were about to die,” and then four weeks from now, now you’re a beast.

We get that all the time with our online people. They’re like, “Oh my gosh, this is so hard. This is brutal. I feel so tired,” and 4-5 weeks later, “I feel like a machine. I’m so strong.” Yadda, yadda, yadda. It’s just that ability to know that you’re going to suck for a little while and just work hard to get better. I think for you, Neely, it’s just 4-6 exercises and just have the goal to be to improve on your performance, based off how you feel, how you look, not just how many rounds and reps you can get in. You know, you can get in eight rounds but look like crap the whole time. I want you getting in eight rounds and look like a stud.

 

Neely Quinn: And a round – just for a few more details for people – so I would do these six exercises and would I have time in between each exercise to rest?

 

Kris Peters: No. You just go as hard as you can, as long as you can, yeah. I mean, that’s another thing, too. For trainers out there, it’s all about seeing how the client performs. If I watch Neely do this workout and you’re taking water breaks and rest and breathing, I’ll just be like, “Okay, we have a lot of work to do.” It’s one of those mentalities where Neely needs to be okay with suffering and feeling terrible, and she needs to be able to push through that. That, to me, is the sign of a successful athlete who’s going to be able to continue to push her limit. It’s just the ones that whine and complain, rest, sit down, don’t want to do it. It’s just like, those are the people who are impossible to work with. With Neely, I’ve seen her workout and I’ve seen her try hard, and she does have that side of her that kicks into, like, “Okay, I want to get after this.” Those are just things to monitor, not just doing the work, but also the attitude of the athlete while they’re doing it.

 

Neely Quinn: Between the rounds – you’re looking at me and I’m like, “Where’s the rest? When do I get rest?” [laughs]

 

Kris Peters: There’s no rest between the rounds! It’s just like, training is all about how bad do you want it, how hard do you want to go? Again, this kid came in and he almost passed out and was like, “Can we start over again? I want to keep going.” That’s a great sign of someone who wants to work hard, so for that 20-minute round, it’s not about resting or getting water, it’s about going hard for that 20 minutes and then you get to rest when you’re done.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, got it. Sounds shitty.

 

Kris Peters: Yeah, it is, but imagine on the wall. Fifteen minutes on the wall is like, “Don’t sit there and untie your knot and take some time and get some water.” It’s like, “No. You need to be hurting. You need to be suffering on the wall.” That’s what training is, a lot of times is, suffering and pushing through that. I’ve worked with a lot of people that are really good at that. They just want it so badly that they just do what they need to do.

 

Neely Quinn: And you think, even though you’re running, you’re doing push-presses, you’re doing all these things that aren’t climbing, you think that that’s still the best training for an 80-foot rock climb?

 

Kris Peters: I just think, yeah. Climbing things that are going to physically push you and make you stronger, based off of your body type, Neely, based off of how you’re built and your size – yes, I think that is a good thing for you. Again, some people are different. Some people come in and we have a different approach but based off of you and what I’ve seen you do, yes – I would have you do that in a heartbeat.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, give me an example of somebody who’s opposite of me, then, and what you would have them do.

 

Kris Peters: So the guy I just met. He’s super lean, scrawny, not very strong…

 

Neely Quinn: Are you calling me fat?

 

Kris Peters: No, I’m not calling you fat. I’m calling this kid who’s 6’ with no meat on him – he could barely – if he’s listening: dude, you’re the man. You’re a great stud. I can’t wait to keep working with you – but he had a hard time pressing the bar over his head and that, to me, is a sign that we have upper body weakness so I’m not going to take him through circuits. I’m going to focus on strength training, so he’s going to do heavier weight and more reps or whatever. We’re going to focus on that. We’re not going to do circuit training because he needs to get stronger.

For you, Neely, you just need to get fitter, more explosive, and just be like an animal. You can already climb, you’re good at what you do, it’s just turning you into a beast.

 

Neely Quinn: However, when we first started working together, you and I, I was weak. I was pretty frickin’ weak so you wouldn’t have me doing circuits then.

 

Kris Peters: I know, I wouldn’t have then, but now you would. Your strength went up pretty quickly. Your deadlifts, your squats, that all started changing very quickly for you. Your body started changing, you were losing weight, you were gaining muscle, like you were getting really strong so that’s when I realized, “Okay, now her training should go into this type,” based off all the gains she’s getting.

 

Neely Quinn: Cool. I’m sorry to make this all about me, but I figured it would be a good representation of a lot of people and it’s sort of selfish, but anyway. As a parting thought, I would like to give people just one more standard workout that people could do in order to gain fitness, overall.

 

Kris Peters: So you want me to give that right now?

 

Neely Quinn: Well, if you could, just off the top of your head.

 

Kris Peters: I mean, I think a popular workout that we’ve done – again, if you want to keep it climbing-specific, one thing you could do that’s just a really good thing is just a 4×4, then go into the fitness room and have – I would just keep it core-specific, just to keep it simple. I would pick four core exercises, 25 reps for each exercise, when you finish all four you’ve hit 100 reps and go back to the bouldering area. Do your 4×4 again, and then go back to the fitness room, and repeat that four times and see how you do.

The goal a lot of times, and I’ll use Alex Biale as an example. If you don’t know Alex Biale, he’s a crusher in Boulder. He was one of my favorite clients I’ve ever worked with because he would go suffer in the fitness room and then perform better back on bouldering. Like, I remember one night, he did a V12 or 13 after getting the crapped kicked out of him by me up in the fitness room, because it just – I don’t know. Some people, they fall apart, they breakdown, but mentally, Alex was just so mentally tough that he would just go back to the climbing and just perform so well.

It’s the same thing with Joe Kinder, with Mirsky, and with Sam. Those guys, when I’d beat them up, they’d start to get better at climbing. They would go back out and perform well. It’s just as simple as that. A 4×4, four hard core exercises for 100 reps, and repeat that four times and just try to maintain the same level of climbing you started at. You want to keep it around your onsight level for all four climbs and – yeah, see how that goes.

 

Neely Quinn: So, do you mean a complete 4×4 each time, or do you just mean repeat a boulder four times?

 

Kris Peters: I would say you can repeat a boulder four times or have four different boulders. I usually like to pick four different boulders. I don’t like repeating the same one. I usually like to have variety, so I’ll usually say, “Okay, these are your four you have to do. Do it, and you have 5-10 minutes to get them all done. Get upstairs, do your four exercises, I’ll give you about a 2-3 minute rest and then do it again.”

 

Neely Quinn: Okay, so they’re not doing the complete 4×4 every time, like they’re not doing 16 boulders every time. They’re doing four, then the exercises upstairs, then the four, then they’re doing it four times.

 

Kris Peters: Yes. So, when it’s all done, it’s 16 – correct.

 

Neely Quinn: Okay. That’s good. That’s simple, too. That’s easy to remember.

 

Kris Peters: Super simple. Go try it, guys. If you think it’s too easy, let us know and we’ll try and do a harder workout next time. This might be a good thing! Maybe we can try and do a workout challenge every week, you know, kind of like how crossfit give the WOD? Try to give Training Beta a ‘workout of the day’ type of thing.

 

Neely Quinn: Yeah, a ‘workout of the week.’ So, on that note, this will be the last thing. I know you have to go. My good friend Leici, she is one of the fittest people I have ever known ,and she did the core workout that you gave for that core episode. She was like, “I was crushed. I was sore for days.”

 

Kris Peters: [laughs] And I’ve worked with Leici before. She’s a beast. She’s super strong. I mean, we don’t mess around at Training Beta, guys. We don’t mess around. All of this stuff out there? C’mon now. We make you go hard…so, yeah. Cool.

 

Neely Quinn: Thank you. Any parting words?

 

Kris Peters: No, guys, I hope you are enjoying the workouts. Let us know if you guys want any free tips every week. We’re more than happy to do that for you guys. Check out the subscriptions. We’ve got more coming your way. Have a great day, everybody!

 

Neely Quinn: Alright. Thanks, Kris.

 

Kris Peters: See you guys. Bye.

 

Neely Quinn: I hope you enjoyed that interview with Kris Peters. Again, if you want to work with him or if you want to do any of his workouts, you can. If you go to www.trainingbeta.com and you go to our ‘Training Programs’ tab, you’ll see that he’s written our route climbing training program, which is three workouts every week. It’s a subscription program. They’re all unique workouts so you can go through six-week cycles of strength, finger strength, power endurance, things like that, and then we also have our bouldering program, which is a similar setup but it’s focused on bouldering.

He also wrote a six-week power endurance program, which is an eBook. It’s a PDF and you just download it and bring it in with you to the gym, or on your phone, or on paper if you want to print it out. That gives you, actually, four workouts every week. One is optional, because we realized not everybody can workout really hard four days a week. That is that, and if you want to work with him one-on-one, you can do that as well. He will create a five-week program for you, with or without Skype and email support, so check that out on www.trainingbeta.com. Those programs are how these podcast episodes are made possible. Every time you purchase something from us, that helps us keep doing what we’re doing. We love what we’re doing so we love your support.

I think that’s it for today. I will be gone next week. I’ll be in Rifle, trying to get up my project, and I’ll be back after that. Have a great week and I’ll talk to you soon!

 

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